this is an open discussion forum. keep it clean. personal attacks on private citizens will not be tolerated. you may discuss politics if you like but you may not rip or endorse specific local candidates.
Tuesday, March 04, 2008
open thread. post as you please....
play nice!
65 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Where did your family come from. And do you have the papers to back it up. Is today's illegal immigration worse than the WOP illegals of the early 1900's
In the 1900's we were a growing nation that was short on laborers. Also very few illegals actually came in as a percentage of the legals.
In the 2000's we are short on jobs and the number of illegals is higher than the legals. They are also sending the money out of country and draining our budget.
As an example the illegals where a family member works claim many kids to eliminate tax withholding. They use a fake SS number. They displace local workers who would pay tax but when they get sick they go to the hospitle and use another SS number and claim they are making less than minimum wage.
So the illegals get free state sponsered medical, pay no tax, pay no car insurance, share a house to avoid property taxes meaning they get free schooling with a special Spanish speaking teacher we pay for.
How can people be so naive they think it is a good thing?
The local folks who are cheated out of a job and the taxpayers are the big loosers. Why should they get free medical and pay no taxes? Why should people in the country legally have their jobs taken just so we can pay them welfare?
Why should we be happy about it?
Explain to me what is good for our COUNTRY by all of this?
MOSES WAS A CRACKHEAD! Article came from the DrudgeReport.
High on Mount Sinai, Moses was on psychedelic drugs when he heard God deliver the Ten Commandments, an Israeli researcher claimed in a study published this week. Such mind-altering substances formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times, Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy.
"As far Moses on Mount Sinai is concerned, it was either a supernatural cosmic event, which I don't believe, or a legend, which I don't believe either, or finally, and this is very probable, an event that joined Moses and the people of Israel under the effect of narcotics," Shanon told Israeli public radio on Tuesday.
Moses was probably also on drugs when he saw the "burning bush," suggested Shanon, who said he himself has dabbled with such substances.
"The Bible says people see sounds, and that is a clasic phenomenon," he said citing the example of religious ceremonies in the Amazon in which drugs are used that induce people to "see music."
He mentioned his own experience when he used ayahuasca, a powerful psychotropic plant, during a religious ceremony in Brazil's Amazon forest in 1991. "I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations," Shanon said.
He said the psychedelic effects of ayahuasca were comparable to those produced by concoctions based on bark of the acacia tree, that is frequently mentioned in the Bible.
To Anonymous @ 3:22PM You, or whoever you are trying to reference was given a gift at birth called free will, which means you can choose to believe whatever you want. The world is full of people who claim to be intelligent and educated and write such material that you posted. You are free to believe it if you wish. You and Benny also have the rest of your life to come up with explanations as to why you chose to believe the word of man over the word of God. It's never too late to change direction. If you and/or Benny ask, you will be shown the truth. The faith part is up to you.
the bottom line is that they are either illegal or not.....it they are illegal, then lets put them in jail, sent them back or put whoever is employing them in jail......if we dont want them to be illegal, then lets stop talking about it, change the law, and let them all in........we enforce the illegal drug laws, why cant we enforce the illegal immigrats law............is the power of the almighty dollar that great......impeach any official that refuses to enforce the law
instead of lottery funds going to help rich and poor students with college education, why dont we let the lottery fund insurance for all the people who cant find or cant afford health insurance.?.....that way the people wouldnt complain about government ontrol of healthcare....
Unless you know how to kill, skin, and quarter an animal you better hope they don't run every single illegal immigrant out of our country. No matter how wrong or illegal it is these people now fill some of the most basic of jobs our society requires. The irony of the whole issue is this...our society has to have the cheap, illegal immigrant labor. We have to have it and couldn't afford to go without it.
So we need illegal people to gut, skin, and process animals....thus we can't make sure all workers are legal or they will not be able to do that work for what we want to pay.
Make a great deal of sense, like some of the crap that flops out of George Bush's lying or ignorant about life mouth.
OKAY, we've beat that dead horse awhile, could we now talk local politics, who is running, who is not? What are the rumors? How is the new Mayor doing with Kenny? Please someone run in Hardwicks area.
Like the lottery idea to fund health insurance. Like Gene Hardwick too. He's not a puppet for anybody else and does what he thinks is best for the community not some special interest group.
if we did away with illegals, then the pay for those jobs would increase....then the people who are not working today would start filling those higher paying jobs and we could do away with alot of the welfare and unemployment costs.....plus these new legal workers would be paying medicare and social security taxes and that would help keep those afloat............and to 8:03,, if you think the liberal left has aligned with the big businesses, then i would like to know what you are smoking.....right wingers are for big businesses, left is for little people and big government
walter, you said "play nice"....if we did that, viewers would decrease and you would have to close this site.......just like fox news would have to go off air if it didnt stir the pot and raise issues that they know is wrong and divisive.....
the only good thing that the fair tax plan offers is that it would end some of the free ride that the illegals have now......now, most of them are treated as independant contractors and are payed without any deductions of social security, medicare, or taxes.....they are mostly payed by check, so that the employers can deduct that expense......then the illegal go to a check cashing place and pays up to 3% to get that check cashed......so they are in effect paying 3% income tax....and are getting all the perks from the government that we are........with the fair tax, he would be paying the same amount of tax as we do, so he would be sending less money to Mexico
It rewards people for NOT using the system or for not spending money.
What amazes me is how little common sense people apply to problems. It takes X dollars to run a country. We will always pay that amount.
Also the more dollars shipped overseas the more everything in this country costs. For example the high price of oil lately is tied to low value of the dollar, nothing else. Oil is over $100 dollars a barrel because our dollar, from the Iraq War and uncontrolled trade, is worth less than half of what it was a few years ago to the rest of the world.
The dollar is now worth half as much as it was a year ago. Eventually when we buy things overseas it will all have to double in price. There is no way around that. It is cast in stone.
The "fair tax" scheme is just another diversion. It takes a certain amount to run the government. We have already eliminated the expense of checking imported goods, securing our borders, and many other services. We are also funding a war.
Unless the governement makes huge cuts, not little unimportant things, we will all pay the same exact tax we have been paying or some of us will pay more. It will come out of our pockets either on the supply end or the demand end.
On the supply end those who earn more SHOULD pay more. It doesn't always work that way. Bush primarily gave tax cuts to those making over $100k a year and to businesses that move jobs offshore.
On the demand end (the "fair tax") those who spend more will pay more. That will largely be the middle class.
The end amount as taxes will have to be exactly the same if we want to keep going deeper and deeper into national debt at the same rate as we are now. Unfortunately since it is easier to cheat a demand tax, there will be more cheating and those that do pay tax will pay more.
The is already a one trillion dollar underground economy. The only thing the fair tax will do is increase that economy.
The illegals living ten to a house and consuming almost no taxible goods or services and shipping money offshore will still pay almost no tax and never make up for the services they use.
The working honest class who legally report income and don't cheat on purchases will pay even more to run things.
Only those that cheat by bartering in an underground economy will win. What "fair tax" should really be called is "fairy tax". It is vaporware and pixie dust. The people who pay taxes will have a harder time, and the people who cheat will have a new much easier way of cheating.
My name Jo'sa Emendeus. I am illegal alien that work hard killin, skinin, and quarterin all de animals. I considerin runnin against Commissioner Gene Hardwick. Will all you fine legalized citizens vote fer me. If you support me then I try and get a drivers licence and I can borrow a social security number.
I promise to continue try and make all citzens believe I know what I be doing while I try to make money and avoid taxes. I try to screw you all over and make you feel good about it. I will also bee on the IDA to but be no problem with da law cause I already illegal.
Sorry amigo. The person that selectively edits the code books isn't here any more, so it looks like you are out of luck even if you get elected.
You'll just have to use the front door unless you are a white Gringo. Only elected or appointed officials are allowed to break rules and do things the back door way.
You might however consider serving on an authority. Then you can give away county assets to the city despite rules that say otherwise. With all that money going where it never should have went surely some will fall your way! It's the American dream. Most people will be too chicken to call you out on it.
I have a question why does a certain city police officer get to ride around town and park his personal car at the city police department on an expired tag. Then he gets into a patrol car and pulls people over and gives them a ticket for the same thing.
12:15 anon, the company I work for has one employee and it's me. But according to the US gov't, 25 to 30% of all agricultural employees in the US are illegal aliens.
wdm does that mean you are an illegal alien? Is that what you are telling us?
8:02PM file a complaint with Chuck Keadle (Chief of Police) make a citizens arrest. Any action is better than airing it out on the blog hoping someone else will take care of it.
i love the new name of the fairtax .....THE FAIRY TAX......what a great post.......and to the one about lottery funds going to insurance.........what about the state lottery coming up with a scratch-off lottery ticket that will provide the winner instead of a large money prize,,,it will pay for health care insurance for life....it would be a boom for the lottery fund......tons of people would buy tickets
11:19 I like that idea too. I bet it really would sell. And let the sells from that ticket be used to help offset the cost of healthcare insurance in GA instead of being used for education. Then the lottery will be helping education and healthecare.
The USA is going down the toilet because of a few greedy power people and the majority of the population is watching them do it and could care less. That is how I see it.
A gunman infiltrated a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem….
at least seven killed and 10 people wounded….
In Gaza, the Islamic militant Hamas praised the attack….
Thousands of Palestinians poured into the streets to celebrate….
Rice needs to pack her bags and go. Muslims don’t want peace and all the American whiners want to let them do as they will. If they want a holy war then I think we should give it to them and run the Muslims and Hamas out of Israel. That land belongs to Israel and Rice has no business trying to get them to give it up. The Muslims only want to drive them into the sea. We should drive the Muslims into the Euphrates. I’m sick of the lies. It’s time to kick some ass. You liberals can go help the Muslims. Then we can take care of 2problems at one time.
ther goes the right winger talk again about starting another war.....let isarel kick anybody they want to, but dont commit us to another war.....we cant afford and cant win the two we are in now......we need to stop believing that we can police the world.....we have our hands trying to police the u.s........we are drowning in debt and bad manners........there are alot of rich nations out there, let one of them go help israel....however, i doubt that isarel need help......lets mind our own business and borders.....spent our money on our own problems and our own people
jan 20, 2009, cant come quick enough........under bush in 7 years and 2 months, the dow jones avg has gone from 10,650 to 12,105 today......thats 200 points a year avg........under clinton went from the 3000's to 10,650.........then you wonder why anyone would want a liberal back in office.......elect a liberal and the war ends, gas prices decrease, stock market increses, and housing debacale ends..........before someone talks about big gov. dont forget that bush increased government, increased debt, and increased ill feeling overseas........
if i am an idiot, it is because i and thousands like me didnt do enough in 2000 to make sure that al gore got elected president.....i regret it almost daily that i didnt donate more and work harder to get him elected.....life would be much better if we had been under democractic leadership the past 7 years.....
Bush and McCain are two different people. How can you compare them. I don't much care for McCain but I'll take him 100 times over Obamma or the Heldibeast.
"Unless you know how to kill, skin, and quarter an animal you better hope they don't run every single illegal immigrant out of our country. No matter how wrong or illegal it is these people now fill some of the most basic of jobs our society requires. The irony of the whole issue is this...our society has to have the cheap, illegal immigrant labor. We have to have it and couldn't afford to go without it."
We used this same basic argument once before in this country.
Lordy, I can't pick this cotton without these slaves. How will I make any money? We got a nasty Civil War as a result. Guess what, with all the jobs leaving this country for Mexico and China, the competition is increasing for what is left. Just the ticket for another Civil War, and that is just what is going to happen. The stupid Republicans are catering to the business interests seeking "work for nothing" labor, and the stupid Democrats think they can use the Latino vote to secure their power structure. Both are doomed to total failure and war, a bloody race based war will be the result.
Better enjoy these days. The "United" States hasn't much longer to go.
The dollar is now at a record low against the Euro, and that means the dollar is worth less to the rest of the world.
When the dollar is worth less, it means the price of everything we get offshore will increase in our eyes. Oil will go up even more because based on the dollar we have to send more overseas to compete with the rest of the world. The same is true for copper and everything else that comes from offshore.
We are really in a bad fix and it is getting worse. Unless people revolt against the congress and president and insist they start using their brains to help American people, we will indeed be in a big civil war.
The wheels are coming off America and all people do is thing more of the same old crap will fix things.
Name calling certainly shows how bright you are and how valid your points are.
It takes a certain amount of money to run a country. Someone has to pay, and the fact is right now coming out of the Bush years we're are running at record deficits.
This means unless we stop the war on terror, move manufacturing jobs back into this country, and do a number of other things positive for OUR overall economy we have to pay more tax....not less.
Only a person with a total lack of common logical sense would think shifting from a supply (income) tax to a demand (spending tax) would reduce the tax burden to the middle class.
Right now the way people avoid tax is to work under the table for cash. That's a trillion dollar economy, which really isn't much compared to the above ground economy.
If we had that "fairy tax" it would shift even more of the tax burden to the middle class. It would also create a boom in the underground economy because it would be almost impossible to enforce a sales tax when two people get together and decide they want to trade or do a cash sale.
It's really such an obviously flawed idea it scares me to think people allowed to vote would fall for such nonsense. Anyone not able to reason through something as clear as this probably should not be allowed to pick a leader.
1.) We have to pay for Iraq. We have to pay for Government services, like the highways, the military, and even the CDC and FDA.
2.) We are already not paying enough. Our economy is being bled to death becuase what goes OUT of the USA is less than what comes in. The dollar is crashing because of our debt to ourselves and other countries.
Common sense tells anyone that reducing taxes won't work. The "fair tax" is a nice fairy tale, but any logical person would know it is the opposite of what we need.
It's as silly as picking a manager for our country based on his religious faith or "experience" in the broken system we have. Look how silly we are. We picked a person who never had a profitable business or a self-propelled social status climb and who evaded service in Vietnam to run the business of America. We picked a drinker who evaded service in Vietnam and whose only ability to have any social status or money came from his parents.
Why would any logical person think that was a formula for progess?
No matter how much we bitch and moan about our government, we never really do anything about it. Think about what would happen if every citizen that was allowed to vote in an election voted? Not even half of the US population contribute to the elections, and those are the ones that complain the most. We have allowed our government to become what it is today. It's kind of like allowing the few percent of people who gripe about prayer and pledge of allegiance in school get away with it. 90% of the world is Christian but we just sit back and take it in the butt. Maybe we should all stand up and preach what we believe in and what should happen. The more we sit back and not say a word the worse it gets. As far as the illegal immigration goes, it's a joke! I am a permanent resident who has paid $1000's of dollars in legal fees to make sure all my i's were dotted and t's were crossed, I get medicaid and social security taken out of my paycheck and will I even be eligible for any of it? HELL NO!
the only way to get all the people to vote is to make it easy and painless to vote....it would also help if the people thought their vote would count ......everyone in ga, knowns that the republican candidate is going to win ga in the nov. election......so why would a democract bother to go to vote.......the good people of miss. this year never got a chance to vote for a repubican cndidate......all this crap about fla and michigan........then the whole idea of an electoral college.........BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IF AN ELECTION IN AFRICA, SO. AMERICA, EUROPE, OR RUSSIA WAS HELD WITH THE RULES WE HAVE IN OUR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION....WE WOULD HAVE A FIT AND WOULD SEND JIMMY CARTER and CONDI RICE TO INVESTIGATE.....IT AINT FAIR BUT BECAUSE ITS OUR UNFAIR ELECTION; WE LOOK THE OTHER WAY AND SAY "aint we great"
The better democrats and republicans were all out at the start.
Worse yet, we are used to them lying or we swallow their lies. McCain clearly lied about Romney, he clearly lies about others also. So does Hillary, although the level of outright lies goes down when Bill Clinton hides.
I intitially was deciding between Romney and Hillary, but when Hillary openly told a big lie about taxes, calling the Bush tax cuts for those making over 200K a year "middle class taxes" and when Bill started his typical big lies, I backed away. When I saw McCain even when confronted with written facts lie about Romney I ruled him out.
I'm stuck voting for the smallest liar of the crowd, which at this point is Obama. I'll vote the second least liar, McCain, if the choice is Clinton liar team or the lesser liar McCain.
I am a conservative and I have been giving this whole liberal thing some thought. It’s all about having government supply to all your needs so you can free up your worries to be totally free to enjoy all the world has to offer. • To make sure “the man” doesn’t destroy the Earth: • To “make love, not war” with the freedom to abort an accident from a night of fun: • To provide support to all the people that are physically able, but refuse to support themselves because; they dropped out of school because it was a drag; or it interfered with their drug and alcohol use; or the government pay was sufficient to make babies; or because, (full circle), the “school system” failed them because the “school system” didn’t care and now they lack the education to get a good job. • To pardon the criminal for the robbery and murder of a mother or father to obtain much needed drug money because of their habit created by a governmental system that let them down in the past, and because the punishment is too harsh for something that’s not really their fault: • To pardon the drug dealer because the “school system” failed them and that’s the only job available, and because the punishment is too harsh for something that’s not really their fault: • To change the US Constitution to prevent law abiding citizens the right to own a gun reducing the danger to a criminal because a governmental system let the criminal down in the past and the criminal needs to earn money. • To let aliens into the country illegally and then support them with everything from welfare to healthcare while allowing them to work without paying into the tax system because some Americans won’t do the kind of work they do.
Let’s face it. Those liberal democrats are well educated and smart and probably the best paid individuals in the country. Somebody even said they are the college professors, the lawyers, the doctors, and certainly the actors. That is the reason they are willing to pay so much more in taxes to support everything. And they use their educated minds to make laws providing loopholes protecting their earnings from taxes. Why they even engineered and applied NAFTA. What more can you ask from a political group that cares so much for your well being? Then I thought who’s actually going to pay for all this? ME and YOU and “you” include all you plain holding job liberals that don’t fit into the professor/lawyer type jobs.
I know that I exaggerated a lot of my comments about liberals. Our government, (includes all political groups) have been letting the people down for a long time and it’s the people’s fault. The leadership elected by the people are politicians, not leaders. And people are easily brainwashed with undeliverable promises by politicians of a political party that they argue and find fault with each other until it’s time to vote. The biggest bullsh**er wins and basically has a secure, powerful, untouchable future for at least four years, possibly eight. During that time the people just continue to complain and argue with each other about those undeliverable promises until it’s time to do it again.
It seems to me that the ideal leader would have common sense with (willing to die for) love for America. The ideal leader should focus on the intentions of what our forefathers intended and learn from their achievements and failures. The ideal leader would work to greatly reduce government and work to provide for the defense of our way of life, infrastructure of our country, and to help provide the basic survival needs to the people, such as food, clean drinking water, and clean air. The ideal leader would encourage business development in states to provide jobs to the people. The ideal leader would not allow the law making body of government to live with special entitlements that they may vote for themselves. So on and so on……......
Our problems are not unfixable, but we do need real leadership rather than greedy politicians to fix them. Just one persons opinion. Nothing to kill over. GMAC
Anon 9:20 am, The Fair Tax is not a middle class burden because it trashes the regressive PAYROLL TAX! This is a tax that hits every dollar of a "middle class" person's pocket considering it caps at $97,500. I don't know about you but I believe very few "middle class" people will ever see their incomes go beyond this cap. The "evil wealthy" make plenty of money beyond this cap and do not get the 15% (7.65 from you, 7.65 from your employer) shaft like we do up to this level. The FT will force those living on Capital Gains (15% tax rate compared to our 25% income tax PLUS 15% payroll) to contribute to our SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. It will also untax people up to the poverty level thus allowing citizens to go untaxed on the necessities of life, not to mention completely scrapping all penalties for investing and untaxing education. You say that switching from an income tax to a consumption tax would be a bad idea but many economists think this is necessary to keep up in a global market. I would agree considering the fact that European countries have shifted their tax collection to a similar idea- a VAT tax. This keeps the tax burden off of your exports and on your imports so the playing field is leveled. Obviously we can do nothing about cheap labor in foreign countries but the least we could do is allow our exports to be competitive by removing the embedded taxes. Your idea of a "middle class" burden is wrong. It has been disproven time and time again but yet people like you still choose to believe it and fall into the trap of class warfare for political gain. Your statement that government needs a certain amount of money to function is absolutely true. This is why the FT is designed to be completely revenue neutral. Based on the current needs of our government. The plus side is that nearly every economist that has studied this idea has concluded that this will increase our overall standard of living and increase our GDP in ten years when compared to our current system by 5-10%. The tax burden will be lower for almost every one in America because of the increased tax base that now includes all citizens and visitors- illegal or not. If you believe that the 23% tax inclusive tag on everything is just too much consider this, this is what it takes to run it RIGHT NOW. Some economists disagree and say that it would take up to DOUBLE this %. What does this tell you? YOU ALREADY PAY THIS. Just a smaller number of people are footing the bill and more of this tax is hidden. I would love to disprove more of your false claims, keep it coming and keep it clean please. Jarad B.
talking abourt the candidates and their lying';..they be practicing to be president.....george bush has told so many that even he does know when he is lying....today he said that the economy may be slowing down....what rock has he been under....dow was 10,600 when he took office and today it closed at 11,900......oil per barrel goes from $30 to 105.....gas prices over $3.20....diesel at $3.75.....i just dont understand when people say we cant afford the democracts.....the republicans have had control of presidentcy for over 7 years, if they cant do anything to improve our condition in that time, how can they expect john mccain to be able to do something in the short time he has left.......lets try something different, if it doesnt work out, then forget the democracts forever
something is broken that is for sure, but it aint me.....it is the george bush government.......mr fair tax, you never explained how cities and states will get people to buy their bonds if fair tax is enacted.....only people who buy them now are those who want tax-free income.....after fairtax, all income will be taxed when you spend it,,,,so who is gonna get 5% from cities and states when you can get 8 and 9 from corporative bands......
Constitution for the United States of America: Article. I. Section. 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Well let's see - Some people pay no tax but get a big refund.
Some people earn so much that they don't need a refund and pay no tax.
Anonymous said... Anon 9:20 am, "The Fair Tax is not a middle class burden because it trashes the regressive PAYROLL TAX! This is a tax that hits every dollar of a "middle class" person's pocket considering it caps at $97,500."
You are making false or misleading statements. You are talking only about the FICA tax, which is social security and medicare. That rate is 6.25% for SS on the first 97.5K of income, and then stops at that amount The 1.45% medicare continues.
This is what the employer matches, and it is a small portion of the overall tax.
What actually happens is once you pass 97.5K you reach the capped amount for SS but the medicare is still a flat 1.45%, so the numbers aren't as dramatic as you make them seem.
"The "evil wealthy" make plenty of money beyond this cap and do not get the 15% (7.65 from you, 7.65 from your employer) shaft like we do up to this level."
What the heck are you saying? Everyone pays that rate up to that 97.5K cap level. After that amount the additional tax is only 1.45% for medicare.
"The FT will force those living on Capital Gains (15% tax rate compared to our 25% income tax PLUS 15% payroll) to contribute to our SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc."
You can thank Bush for the 15% rate on long term capital gains. Prior to his tax cuts for those who had enough money to invest in long term investments, the rate was higher. This is also the long term gains, not the short term tax. Also the person STILL has to pay income tax, so it isn't correct to imply the people with capital gains taxes pay no other taxes.
I paid capital gains tax on some trees I logged, and the profit also added to my income tax which was already a 35% bracket. I actually paid almost 50% tax on my tree money. Let's not imply that the 15% capital gains tax made me pay less tax than someone paying an income tax. It didn't.
"It will also untax people up to the poverty level thus allowing citizens to go untaxed on the necessities of life, not to mention completely scrapping all penalties for investing and untaxing education."
Low income people already get an earned income tax credit, and already can pay almost zero tax. As a matter of fact they can already get back more than they pay in.
On the other hand the Fairy Tax will add cost at every stage of a goods transfer, and the tax rate is estimated by independent sources as required to be as high as 40% if ALL goods are taxed, including transactions between businesses or to Government use. This adds cost all through the process thate everyone, even the poor, will pay. If we don't do that the rate would need to be higher.
The rates sometimes quoted by Fairy Tax proponents is based on the entire amount of money changing hands. It doesn't count the giant sucking noise as people realize the way to save money is to barter or do transactions as below RADAR cash.
"You say that switching from an income tax to a consumption tax would be a bad idea but many economists think this is necessary to keep up in a global market."
The global market is what is bleeding us to death. It's absolute stupidity for the USA to think all barriers are bad. Europe has the European Community which makes it very tough for anyone else to sell into that community. Look at how their standard of living is holding, while the dollar is sinking as it goes to the Communists, the Arabs, and to poor nations.
" I would agree considering the fact that European countries have shifted their tax collection to a similar idea- a VAT tax. This keeps the tax burden off of your exports and on your imports so the playing field is leveled."
We already cut taxes on exports. Most businesses don't even have to pay tax on inventory or materials for export. As a matter of fact we are so dumb we give a tax break for exporting jobs.
" Obviously we can do nothing about cheap labor in foreign countries but the least we could do is allow our exports to be competitive by removing the embedded taxes."
Ever hear of an import duty? An import duty equalizes the difference in costs for manufacturing goods where labor standards or environmental standards are substandard to ours.
Europe doesn't do what we do. They tax things coming in. If I want to sell a widget to England I have to pay England for testing the widget to meet CE standards. Either I and/or the customer has to pay import duties. If someone in France sells to England they don't have pay for testing the product, they don't have to pay duty.
This is why the European Community Euro is getting strong against the dollar. It's a large part of the reason they aren't paying more for gas, but we are.
"Your statement that government needs a certain amount of money to function is absolutely true. This is why the FT is designed to be completely revenue neutral. Based on the current needs of our government. The plus side is that nearly every economist that has studied this idea has concluded that this will increase our overall standard of living and increase our GDP in ten years when compared to our current system by 5-10%."
That isn't factual at all. There are many economists who view the Fairy tax as unworkable and devastating to our economy.
Like it or not the same overall tax dollars will be paid. Actually we would all have to almost double what we pay to make up for Bush's gross mismanagement. All that money is going to either come out of income or out of sales. If it comes out of sales everything we buy will get significantly more expensive. The only way to reduce tax will be to not buy any goods, including food.
A person making $300K a year simply needs to hord his money, or just buy things underground, and he will pay no more tax than a person making $30K a year.
The poor sap who spends nearly all his money on a car, house, fuel, food, and clothes will be forced to largely deal in an above ground economy at a 40% tax rate.
The people buying toys will simply "borrow" or "obtain" the toy off the screen of the taxman, as would the drug dealer.
I wish you were right, ut the truth is the little guy will get screwed. That will always happen until we get a no deduction flat rate income tax. As for foreign goods, we just need to imitate what the Europeans did. We need to dump all the poor countries and enter into pacts with people of equal wealth. That's what Europe did. It's working great for them.
To see how our systems compare just look at the price of the Euro compared to the dollar. Oil is $105 a barrel because the dollar is tanking out. The Euro's buy almost the same amount of oil they did three years ago.
Our economy is a house of cards. We perceive it to be the world standard, just like our health care, but the fact is we are in a bubble that is ready to burst.
Obama 'Frightens Me'. The Bible has warned us that 'A man will come from the East that will be charismatic in nature and have proposed solutions for all our problems and his rhetoric will attract many supporters!'
When will our pathetic Nation quit turning their back on God and understand that this man is 'A Muslim'....First, Last and always....and we are AT WAR with the Muslim Nation, whether our bleeding-heart, secular, Liberal friends believe it or not. This man fits every description from the Bible of the 'Anti-Christ'!
I'm just glad to know that there are others that are frightened by this man!
Who is Barack Obama?
Very interesting and something that should be considered in your choice.
If you do not ever forward anything else, please forward this to all your contacts...this is very scary to think of what lies ahead of us here in our own United States...better heed this and pray about it and share it.
snopes.com ..' confirms this is factual. Check for yourself.
Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita , Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii.
When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia.
When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school.
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, 'He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school.'
Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that that he is not a radical.
Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education.
Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta.
Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran.
Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches. Do you want someone like this as your PRESIDENT?
Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy.
The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!
Would you want this man leading our country?...... NOT ME
Great post 7:41, I believe you now hold the record for the longest post! J/K, I will try to respond the best I can.
I SAID - "The Fair Tax is not a middle class burden because it trashes the regressive PAYROLL TAX! This is a tax that hits every dollar of a "middle class" person's pocket considering it caps at $97,500."
YOU SAID - "You are making false or misleading statements. You are talking only about the FICA tax, which is social security and medicare. That rate is 6.25% for SS on the first 97.5K of income, and then stops at that amount The 1.45% medicare continues."
"This is what the employer matches, and it is a small portion of the overall tax."
The Medicare tax does go on and I am sorry for not stating that. I was not trying to be misleading. The point I am trying to make is that "Regular Joes" get taxed for all their income by the payroll tax considering that most do not make beyond this 97,500 cap. If you were to consider the % of income being payroll taxed by the wealthy compared to the "Regular Joes" you would see the regressiveness of this tax.
And as for it being a small portion of the overall tax I will have to disagree. This makes up 38% of all Federal taxes according to 2004 data, income taxes accounted for 43% (just for measurement). The cap has nearly doubled since 1991 when it was $53,400 trapping even more "Regular Joes" in this ever changing regressive tax.
AND, when your employer has to match your payroll tax with "his" money it is a lie. That matching "contribution" is a loss in your wages.
I SAID - "The "evil wealthy" make plenty of money beyond this cap and do not get the 15% (7.65 from you, 7.65 from your employer) shaft like we do up to this level."
YOU - "What the heck are you saying? Everyone pays that rate up to that 97.5K cap level. After that amount the additional tax is only 1.45% for medicare."
I agree. My point was that they don't get the shaft like the Regular Joe. This tax falls disproportionately on low and middle incomes hitting every dollar. Why should a dollar over 97500 be treated differently?
In your argument about people living off of Capital Gains you said, "Also the person STILL has to pay income tax, so it isn't correct to imply the people with capital gains taxes pay no other taxes."
I was referring to people who LIVE off of Capital Gains. They don't have an income tax and they don't have a payroll tax.
I stated that the FT would untax people up to the poverty level.
You said, "Low income people already get an earned income tax credit, and already can pay almost zero tax. As a matter of fact they can already get back more than they pay in."
This does not have a thing to do with ALL people being untaxed to the poverty level. You have shown one particular group, I am saying ALL.
YOU SAID - "On the other hand the Fairy Tax will add cost at every stage of a goods transfer, and the tax rate is estimated by independent sources as required to be as high as 40% if ALL goods are taxed, including transactions between businesses or to Government use. This adds cost all through the process that everyone, even the poor, will pay. If we don't do that the rate would need to be higher.
That is completely false. Only retail purchases will be taxed. There is no business to business tax costs. There is no embedded taxes. The Government WILL pay the tax. This will keep them from having an advantage over a private business and they already pay taxes now- embedded, payroll. And it's not 40%.
I'm not going to argue with your opinion on a Global Market being good or bad. This doesn't fit in this discussion.
YOU - "We already cut taxes on exports. Most businesses don't even have to pay tax on inventory or materials for export."
There are still embedded taxes and tax compliance costs. I don't want to CUT these taxes I want to eliminate them.
Import duties would level the field but to what extent I don't know. I do know that it would force consumers in the US to pay more for that Chinese made widget because of the extra tax tagged on it. It would also push sales of American products up considering that prices would be more competitive. If overall wages would rise in step with this new tax it would be a great to us and a hit to China's pocket. If it just forced our consumers to buy a more expensive Chinese Widget then it would hurt us on our pocket books overall with little US Goods increase. That's a totally different discussion but an interesting one.
YOU - "A person making $300K a year simply needs to hord his money, or just buy things underground, and he will pay no more tax than a person making $30K a year."
Why would this guy hord his money? He would be able to invest it with no tax consequences. If he bought things from an underground source he would be getting one over on the Ole' Gov. but he would also have to have this underground source that doesn't mind taking the risk of losing his business by cheating the system. There will ALWAYS be cheats in any system but under our current one you can cheat in the privacy of your own home without anyone knowing and a less than 1% chance of being caught. Under the FT only retail level business will be under the scrutiny of tax enforcement officials. This would narrow down the possible cheaters by MILLIONS making the tax codes more enforceable.
YOU - "The poor sap who spends nearly all his money on a car, house, fuel, food, and clothes will be forced to largely deal in an above ground economy at a 40% tax rate."
This poor sap is dealing with a 15% income 15% payroll or 25% income 15% payroll right now. When looked at TAX ECLUSIVE they amount to 18% income 18% payroll or 33% income and payroll being the same 18%. These make a combined 36% (15% bracket) and 51% (25% bracket) tax burden on him now plus embedded taxes and tax compliance costs. Under the FT he would be taxed 30% EXCLUSIVE (23%inclusive) on purchases (where he chooses to give up his money for taxes) and he would be untaxed on purchases up to the poverty level.
This can be done because of the size of your tax base under the FT which is the largest base possible- EVERYBODY that lives in the US or visits here legally or illegally.
I'm sure I probably missed some things that you posted but I tried to answer as much as possible that was on topic.
You are missing many things. For example the tax rate you quote is based on a tax evasion rate less than the current 15 to 20%.
You (or the people you quote)also use state sales taxes as a model. But state sales taxes only tax about half of consumtion at best. It's a poor model for a federal tax which would rely on ALL consumption, even Government consumption, housing, and food being taxed.
It also ignores tax evasion. The "fairy tax" people assume, since it is a storybook "fairytale tax", no one would cheat at all.
Conservative estimates indicate the tax evasion rate will go from the 15 to 20% it is now to well over 30%. There will be more cheats because cheating will be much easier, so we would have to add an additional 20 percent to the estimates of required tax rates to allow for cheaters.
States would also have to shift to a consumption based tax, and that would raise the tax exclusive rate to consumers which includes the Government.
Any simple tax can seem like a good idea as long as we don't consider the pitfalls, or as long as we think no one will cheat or that no one will have to enforce the tax.
yall are wasting time talking about fairtax.....it aint ever gonna be brought up for a vote......the good people up north know it is a disaster and know it is totally unworkable......you can talk all you want to, but it aint gonna fly.......
you know 6:22PM, that's somewhat how things in government get worked out: People gather and talk about it, discussing the pros and cons, polishing an idea until it can be chaired for a vote. Therefore, your voice is that. One voice among many. Just because you are against the idea doesn't mean it can't be refined and voted on. GM
A little over one year ago: 1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high; 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon; 3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we're seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet; 2) the cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3 a gallon; 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase); 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses); 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars; 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
65 comments:
Where did your family come from. And do you have the papers to back it up. Is today's illegal immigration worse than the WOP illegals of the early 1900's
Yes it is worse.
In the 1900's we were a growing nation that was short on laborers. Also very few illegals actually came in as a percentage of the legals.
In the 2000's we are short on jobs and the number of illegals is higher than the legals. They are also sending the money out of country and draining our budget.
As an example the illegals where a family member works claim many kids to eliminate tax withholding. They use a fake SS number. They displace local workers who would pay tax but when they get sick they go to the hospitle and use another SS number and claim they are making less than minimum wage.
So the illegals get free state sponsered medical, pay no tax, pay no car insurance, share a house to avoid property taxes meaning they get free schooling with a special Spanish speaking teacher we pay for.
How can people be so naive they think it is a good thing?
The local folks who are cheated out of a job and the taxpayers are the big loosers. Why should they get free medical and pay no taxes? Why should people in the country legally have their jobs taken just so we can pay them welfare?
Why should we be happy about it?
Explain to me what is good for our COUNTRY by all of this?
MOSES WAS A CRACKHEAD! Article came from the DrudgeReport.
High on Mount Sinai, Moses was on psychedelic drugs when he heard God deliver the Ten Commandments, an Israeli researcher claimed in a study published this week.
Such mind-altering substances formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times, Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy.
"As far Moses on Mount Sinai is concerned, it was either a supernatural cosmic event, which I don't believe, or a legend, which I don't believe either, or finally, and this is very probable, an event that joined Moses and the people of Israel under the effect of narcotics," Shanon told Israeli public radio on Tuesday.
Moses was probably also on drugs when he saw the "burning bush," suggested Shanon, who said he himself has dabbled with such substances.
"The Bible says people see sounds, and that is a clasic phenomenon," he said citing the example of religious ceremonies in the Amazon in which drugs are used that induce people to "see music."
He mentioned his own experience when he used ayahuasca, a powerful psychotropic plant, during a religious ceremony in Brazil's Amazon forest in 1991. "I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations," Shanon said.
He said the psychedelic effects of ayahuasca were comparable to those produced by concoctions based on bark of the acacia tree, that is frequently mentioned in the Bible.
To Anonymous @ 3:22PM
You, or whoever you are trying to reference was given a gift at birth called free will, which means you can choose to believe whatever you want. The world is full of people who claim to be intelligent and educated and write such material that you posted. You are free to believe it if you wish. You and Benny also have the rest of your life to come up with explanations as to why you chose to believe the word of man over the word of God. It's never too late to change direction. If you and/or Benny ask, you will be shown the truth. The faith part is up to you.
Lady Loody or is it Lady Lewdy?
the bottom line is that they are either illegal or not.....it they are illegal, then lets put them in jail, sent them back or put whoever is employing them in jail......if we dont want them to be illegal, then lets stop talking about it, change the law, and let them all in........we enforce the illegal drug laws, why cant we enforce the illegal immigrats law............is the power of the almighty dollar that great......impeach any official that refuses to enforce the law
instead of lottery funds going to help rich and poor students with college education, why dont we let the lottery fund insurance for all the people who cant find or cant afford health insurance.?.....that way the people wouldnt complain about government ontrol of healthcare....
We have enough laws right now against illegal aliens. The problem is the same as trade and everything else, we just don't enforce the laws.
The liberal left has aligned with the big business right to shaft the working class.
Unless you know how to kill, skin, and quarter an animal you better hope they don't run every single illegal immigrant out of our country. No matter how wrong or illegal it is these people now fill some of the most basic of jobs our society requires. The irony of the whole issue is this...our society has to have the cheap, illegal immigrant labor. We have to have it and couldn't afford to go without it.
WE now now who hires illegals! Don't we WDM?
So we need illegal people to gut, skin, and process animals....thus we can't make sure all workers are legal or they will not be able to do that work for what we want to pay.
Make a great deal of sense, like some of the crap that flops out of George Bush's lying or ignorant about life mouth.
OKAY, we've beat that dead horse awhile, could we now talk local politics, who is running, who is not? What are the rumors? How is the new Mayor doing with Kenny? Please someone run in Hardwicks area.
We sure need to get rid of Harwick. Someone needs to run against him.
But the illegals are a major issue to America. We need to solve that problem and the unfair trade. Those issues are killing our economy and security.
Like the lottery idea to fund health insurance. Like Gene Hardwick too. He's not a puppet for anybody else and does what he thinks is best for the community not some special interest group.
if we did away with illegals, then the pay for those jobs would increase....then the people who are not working today would start filling those higher paying jobs and we could do away with alot of the welfare and unemployment costs.....plus these new legal workers would be paying medicare and social security taxes and that would help keep those afloat............and to 8:03,, if you think the liberal left has aligned with the big businesses, then i would like to know what you are smoking.....right wingers are for big businesses, left is for little people and big government
walter, you said "play nice"....if we did that, viewers would decrease and you would have to close this site.......just like fox news would have to go off air if it didnt stir the pot and raise issues that they know is wrong and divisive.....
the only good thing that the fair tax plan offers is that it would end some of the free ride that the illegals have now......now, most of them are treated as independant contractors and are payed without any deductions of social security, medicare, or taxes.....they are mostly payed by check, so that the employers can deduct that expense......then the illegal go to a check cashing place and pays up to 3% to get that check cashed......so they are in effect paying 3% income tax....and are getting all the perks from the government that we are........with the fair tax, he would be paying the same amount of tax as we do, so he would be sending less money to Mexico
The fair tax plan is a bad idea.
It rewards people for NOT using the system or for not spending money.
What amazes me is how little common sense people apply to problems. It takes X dollars to run a country. We will always pay that amount.
Also the more dollars shipped overseas the more everything in this country costs. For example the high price of oil lately is tied to low value of the dollar, nothing else. Oil is over $100 dollars a barrel because our dollar, from the Iraq War and uncontrolled trade, is worth less than half of what it was a few years ago to the rest of the world.
The dollar is now worth half as much as it was a year ago. Eventually when we buy things overseas it will all have to double in price. There is no way around that. It is cast in stone.
The "fair tax" scheme is just another diversion. It takes a certain amount to run the government. We have already eliminated the expense of checking imported goods, securing our borders, and many other services. We are also funding a war.
Unless the governement makes huge cuts, not little unimportant things, we will all pay the same exact tax we have been paying or some of us will pay more. It will come out of our pockets either on the supply end or the demand end.
On the supply end those who earn more SHOULD pay more. It doesn't always work that way. Bush primarily gave tax cuts to those making over $100k a year and to businesses that move jobs offshore.
On the demand end (the "fair tax") those who spend more will pay more. That will largely be the middle class.
The end amount as taxes will have to be exactly the same if we want to keep going deeper and deeper into national debt at the same rate as we are now. Unfortunately since it is easier to cheat a demand tax, there will be more cheating and those that do pay tax will pay more.
The is already a one trillion dollar underground economy. The only thing the fair tax will do is increase that economy.
The illegals living ten to a house and consuming almost no taxible goods or services and shipping money offshore will still pay almost no tax and never make up for the services they use.
The working honest class who legally report income and don't cheat on purchases will pay even more to run things.
Only those that cheat by bartering in an underground economy will win. What "fair tax" should really be called is "fairy tax". It is vaporware and pixie dust. The people who pay taxes will have a harder time, and the people who cheat will have a new much easier way of cheating.
My name Jo'sa Emendeus. I am illegal alien that work hard killin, skinin, and quarterin all de animals. I considerin runnin against Commissioner Gene Hardwick. Will all you fine legalized citizens vote fer me. If you support me then I try and get a drivers licence and I can borrow a social security number.
I promise to continue try and make all citzens believe I know what I be doing while I try to make money and avoid taxes. I try to screw you all over and make you feel good about it. I will also bee on the IDA to but be no problem with da law cause I already illegal.
will you give me yo vote?
Sorry amigo. The person that selectively edits the code books isn't here any more, so it looks like you are out of luck even if you get elected.
You'll just have to use the front door unless you are a white Gringo. Only elected or appointed officials are allowed to break rules and do things the back door way.
You might however consider serving on an authority. Then you can give away county assets to the city despite rules that say otherwise. With all that money going where it never should have went surely some will fall your way! It's the American dream. Most people will be too chicken to call you out on it.
I have a question why does a certain city police officer get to ride around town and park his personal car at the city police department on an expired tag. Then he gets into a patrol car and pulls people over and gives them a ticket for the same thing.
12:15 anon, the company I work for has one employee and it's me. But according to the US gov't, 25 to 30% of all agricultural employees in the US are illegal aliens.
wdm does that mean you are an illegal alien? Is that what you are telling us?
8:02PM file a complaint with Chuck Keadle (Chief of Police) make a citizens arrest. Any action is better than airing it out on the blog hoping someone else will take care of it.
i love the new name of the fairtax .....THE FAIRY TAX......what a great post.......and to the one about lottery funds going to insurance.........what about the state lottery coming up with a scratch-off lottery ticket that will provide the winner instead of a large money prize,,,it will pay for health care insurance for life....it would be a boom for the lottery fund......tons of people would buy tickets
11:19 I like that idea too. I bet it really would sell. And let the sells from that ticket be used to help offset the cost of healthcare insurance in GA instead of being used for education. Then the lottery will be helping education and healthecare.
The USA is going down the toilet because of a few greedy power people and the majority of the population is watching them do it and could care less. That is how I see it.
A gunman infiltrated a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem….
at least seven killed and 10 people wounded….
In Gaza, the Islamic militant Hamas praised the attack….
Thousands of Palestinians poured into the streets to celebrate….
Rice needs to pack her bags and go. Muslims don’t want peace and all the American whiners want to let them do as they will. If they want a holy war then I think we should give it to them and run the Muslims and Hamas out of Israel. That land belongs to Israel and Rice has no business trying to get them to give it up. The Muslims only want to drive them into the sea. We should drive the Muslims into the Euphrates. I’m sick of the lies. It’s time to kick some ass. You liberals can go help the Muslims. Then we can take care of 2problems at one time.
ther goes the right winger talk again about starting another war.....let isarel kick anybody they want to, but dont commit us to another war.....we cant afford and cant win the two we are in now......we need to stop believing that we can police the world.....we have our hands trying to police the u.s........we are drowning in debt and bad manners........there are alot of rich nations out there, let one of them go help israel....however, i doubt that isarel need help......lets mind our own business and borders.....spent our money on our own problems and our own people
jan 20, 2009, cant come quick enough........under bush in 7 years and 2 months, the dow jones avg has gone from 10,650 to 12,105 today......thats 200 points a year avg........under clinton went from the 3000's to 10,650.........then you wonder why anyone would want a liberal back in office.......elect a liberal and the war ends, gas prices decrease, stock market increses, and housing debacale ends..........before someone talks about big gov. dont forget that bush increased government, increased debt, and increased ill feeling overseas........
5:19PM has anybody told you lately that you are an idiot. If not, consider it done.
if i am an idiot, it is because i and thousands like me didnt do enough in 2000 to make sure that al gore got elected president.....i regret it almost daily that i didnt donate more and work harder to get him elected.....life would be much better if we had been under democractic leadership the past 7 years.....
Well I guess you better start donating money and work even harder so you can get ready for at least 4 years of McCain.
I hope not, four more years of doing what Comrad Bush the Draft Evader started will make this a third world nation.
I hope not, four more years of doing what Comrad Bush the Draft Evader started will make this a third world nation.
Bush and McCain are two different people. How can you compare them. I don't much care for McCain but I'll take him 100 times over Obamma or the Heldibeast.
"Unless you know how to kill, skin, and quarter an animal you better hope they don't run every single illegal immigrant out of our country. No matter how wrong or illegal it is these people now fill some of the most basic of jobs our society requires. The irony of the whole issue is this...our society has to have the cheap, illegal immigrant labor. We have to have it and couldn't afford to go without it."
We used this same basic argument once before in this country.
Lordy, I can't pick this cotton without these slaves. How will I make any money? We got a nasty Civil War as a result. Guess what, with all the jobs leaving this country for Mexico and China, the competition is increasing for what is left. Just the ticket for another Civil War, and that is just what is going to happen. The stupid Republicans are catering to the business interests seeking "work for nothing" labor, and the stupid Democrats think they can use the Latino vote to secure their power structure. Both are doomed to total failure and war, a bloody race based war will be the result.
Better enjoy these days. The "United" States hasn't much longer to go.
We are already cooked.
The dollar is now at a record low against the Euro, and that means the dollar is worth less to the rest of the world.
When the dollar is worth less, it means the price of everything we get offshore will increase in our eyes. Oil will go up even more because based on the dollar we have to send more overseas to compete with the rest of the world. The same is true for copper and everything else that comes from offshore.
We are really in a bad fix and it is getting worse. Unless people revolt against the congress and president and insist they start using their brains to help American people, we will indeed be in a big civil war.
The wheels are coming off America and all people do is thing more of the same old crap will fix things.
I wish Democrats could read. I would love to give ya'll a fair tax book.
Your lies are just so damn easy to point out.
you can beat a dead horse until you are blue in the face but the horse still ain't going to get up and do anything.
same thing with a democrap.
Name calling certainly shows how bright you are and how valid your points are.
It takes a certain amount of money to run a country. Someone has to pay, and the fact is right now coming out of the Bush years we're are running at record deficits.
This means unless we stop the war on terror, move manufacturing jobs back into this country, and do a number of other things positive for OUR overall economy we have to pay more tax....not less.
Only a person with a total lack of common logical sense would think shifting from a supply (income) tax to a demand (spending tax) would reduce the tax burden to the middle class.
Right now the way people avoid tax is to work under the table for cash. That's a trillion dollar economy, which really isn't much compared to the above ground economy.
If we had that "fairy tax" it would shift even more of the tax burden to the middle class. It would also create a boom in the underground economy because it would be almost impossible to enforce a sales tax when two people get together and decide they want to trade or do a cash sale.
It's really such an obviously flawed idea it scares me to think people allowed to vote would fall for such nonsense. Anyone not able to reason through something as clear as this probably should not be allowed to pick a leader.
1.) We have to pay for Iraq. We have to pay for Government services, like the highways, the military, and even the CDC and FDA.
2.) We are already not paying enough. Our economy is being bled to death becuase what goes OUT of the USA is less than what comes in. The dollar is crashing because of our debt to ourselves and other countries.
Common sense tells anyone that reducing taxes won't work. The "fair tax" is a nice fairy tale, but any logical person would know it is the opposite of what we need.
It's as silly as picking a manager for our country based on his religious faith or "experience" in the broken system we have. Look how silly we are. We picked a person who never had a profitable business or a self-propelled social status climb and who evaded service in Vietnam to run the business of America. We picked a drinker who evaded service in Vietnam and whose only ability to have any social status or money came from his parents.
Why would any logical person think that was a formula for progess?
No matter how much we bitch and moan about our government, we never really do anything about it. Think about what would happen if every citizen that was allowed to vote in an election voted? Not even half of the US population contribute to the elections, and those are the ones that complain the most.
We have allowed our government to become what it is today. It's kind of like allowing the few percent of people who gripe about prayer and pledge of allegiance in school get away with it. 90% of the world is Christian but we just sit back and take it in the butt. Maybe we should all stand up and preach what we believe in and what should happen. The more we sit back and not say a word the worse it gets.
As far as the illegal immigration goes, it's a joke! I am a permanent resident who has paid $1000's of dollars in legal fees to make sure all my i's were dotted and t's were crossed, I get medicaid and social security taken out of my paycheck and will I even be eligible for any of it? HELL NO!
the only way to get all the people to vote is to make it easy and painless to vote....it would also help if the people thought their vote would count ......everyone in ga, knowns that the republican candidate is going to win ga in the nov. election......so why would a democract bother to go to vote.......the good people of miss. this year never got a chance to vote for a repubican cndidate......all this crap about fla and michigan........then the whole idea of an electoral college.........BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IF AN ELECTION IN AFRICA, SO. AMERICA, EUROPE, OR RUSSIA WAS HELD WITH THE RULES WE HAVE IN OUR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION....WE WOULD HAVE A FIT AND WOULD SEND JIMMY CARTER and CONDI RICE TO INVESTIGATE.....IT AINT FAIR BUT BECAUSE ITS OUR UNFAIR ELECTION; WE LOOK THE OTHER WAY AND SAY "aint we great"
The problem is we don't have much of a choice.
The better democrats and republicans were all out at the start.
Worse yet, we are used to them lying or we swallow their lies. McCain clearly lied about Romney, he clearly lies about others also. So does Hillary, although the level of outright lies goes down when Bill Clinton hides.
I intitially was deciding between Romney and Hillary, but when Hillary openly told a big lie about taxes, calling the Bush tax cuts for those making over 200K a year "middle class taxes" and when Bill started his typical big lies, I backed away. When I saw McCain even when confronted with written facts lie about Romney I ruled him out.
I'm stuck voting for the smallest liar of the crowd, which at this point is Obama. I'll vote the second least liar, McCain, if the choice is Clinton liar team or the lesser liar McCain.
I am a conservative and I have been giving this whole liberal thing some thought. It’s all about having government supply to all your needs so you can free up your worries to be totally free to enjoy all the world has to offer.
• To make sure “the man” doesn’t destroy the Earth:
• To “make love, not war” with the freedom to abort an accident from a night of fun:
• To provide support to all the people that are physically able, but refuse to support themselves because; they dropped out of school because it was a drag; or it interfered with their drug and alcohol use; or the government pay was sufficient to make babies; or because, (full circle), the “school system” failed them because the “school system” didn’t care and now they lack the education to get a good job.
• To pardon the criminal for the robbery and murder of a mother or father to obtain much needed drug money because of their habit created by a governmental system that let them down in the past, and because the punishment is too harsh for something that’s not really their fault:
• To pardon the drug dealer because the “school system” failed them and that’s the only job available, and because the punishment is too harsh for something that’s not really their fault:
• To change the US Constitution to prevent law abiding citizens the right to own a gun reducing the danger to a criminal because a governmental system let the criminal down in the past and the criminal needs to earn money.
• To let aliens into the country illegally and then support them with everything from welfare to healthcare while allowing them to work without paying into the tax system because some Americans won’t do the kind of work they do.
Let’s face it. Those liberal democrats are well educated and smart and probably the best paid individuals in the country. Somebody even said they are the college professors, the lawyers, the doctors, and certainly the actors. That is the reason they are willing to pay so much more in taxes to support everything. And they use their educated minds to make laws providing loopholes protecting their earnings from taxes. Why they even engineered and applied NAFTA. What more can you ask from a political group that cares so much for your well being? Then I thought who’s actually going to pay for all this? ME and YOU and “you” include all you plain holding job liberals that don’t fit into the professor/lawyer type jobs.
I know that I exaggerated a lot of my comments about liberals. Our government, (includes all political groups) have been letting the people down for a long time and it’s the people’s fault. The leadership elected by the people are politicians, not leaders. And people are easily brainwashed with undeliverable promises by politicians of a political party that they argue and find fault with each other until it’s time to vote. The biggest bullsh**er wins and basically has a secure, powerful, untouchable future for at least four years, possibly eight. During that time the people just continue to complain and argue with each other about those undeliverable promises until it’s time to do it again.
It seems to me that the ideal leader would have common sense with (willing to die for) love for America. The ideal leader should focus on the intentions of what our forefathers intended and learn from their achievements and failures. The ideal leader would work to greatly reduce government and work to provide for the defense of our way of life, infrastructure of our country, and to help provide the basic survival needs to the people, such as food, clean drinking water, and clean air. The ideal leader would encourage business development in states to provide jobs to the people. The ideal leader would not allow the law making body of government to live with special entitlements that they may vote for themselves. So on and so on……......
Our problems are not unfixable, but we do need real leadership rather than greedy politicians to fix them. Just one persons opinion. Nothing to kill over. GMAC
Anon 9:20 am,
The Fair Tax is not a middle class burden because it trashes the regressive PAYROLL TAX! This is a tax that hits every dollar of a "middle class" person's pocket considering it caps at $97,500. I don't know about you but I believe very few "middle class" people will ever see their incomes go beyond this cap. The "evil wealthy" make plenty of money beyond this cap and do not get the 15% (7.65 from you, 7.65 from your employer) shaft like we do up to this level.
The FT will force those living on Capital Gains (15% tax rate compared to our 25% income tax PLUS 15% payroll) to contribute to our SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.
It will also untax people up to the poverty level thus allowing citizens to go untaxed on the necessities of life, not to mention completely scrapping all penalties for investing and untaxing education.
You say that switching from an income tax to a consumption tax would be a bad idea but many economists think this is necessary to keep up in a global market.
I would agree considering the fact that European countries have shifted their tax collection to a similar idea- a VAT tax.
This keeps the tax burden off of your exports and on your imports so the playing field is leveled. Obviously we can do nothing about cheap labor in foreign countries but the least we could do is allow our exports to be competitive by removing the embedded taxes.
Your idea of a "middle class" burden is wrong. It has been disproven time and time again but yet people like you still choose to believe it and fall into the trap of class warfare for political gain.
Your statement that government needs a certain amount of money to function is absolutely true.
This is why the FT is designed to be completely revenue neutral. Based on the current needs of our government. The plus side is that nearly every economist that has studied this idea has concluded that this will increase our overall standard of living and increase our GDP in ten years when compared to our current system by 5-10%.
The tax burden will be lower for almost every one in America because of the increased tax base that now includes all citizens and visitors- illegal or not.
If you believe that the 23% tax inclusive tag on everything is just too much consider this, this is what it takes to run it RIGHT NOW.
Some economists disagree and say that it would take up to DOUBLE this %. What does this tell you?
YOU ALREADY PAY THIS. Just a smaller number of people are footing the bill and more of this tax is hidden.
I would love to disprove more of your false claims, keep it coming and keep it clean please.
Jarad B.
talking abourt the candidates and their lying';..they be practicing to be president.....george bush has told so many that even he does know when he is lying....today he said that the economy may be slowing down....what rock has he been under....dow was 10,600 when he took office and today it closed at 11,900......oil per barrel goes from $30 to 105.....gas prices over $3.20....diesel at $3.75.....i just dont understand when people say we cant afford the democracts.....the republicans have had control of presidentcy for over 7 years, if they cant do anything to improve our condition in that time, how can they expect john mccain to be able to do something in the short time he has left.......lets try something different, if it doesnt work out, then forget the democracts forever
5:16 you beginning to sound like a broken record.
something is broken that is for sure, but it aint me.....it is the george bush government.......mr fair tax, you never explained how cities and states will get people to buy their bonds if fair tax is enacted.....only people who buy them now are those who want tax-free income.....after fairtax, all income will be taxed when you spend it,,,,so who is gonna get 5% from cities and states when you can get 8 and 9 from corporative bands......
Congrats, Chad Moxon! For successfully completing the Toccoa Law Enforcements SWAT training course... You're devotion to law enforcement is admirable!
-Nikki M.
Constitution for the United States of America: Article. I. Section. 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Well let's see - Some people pay no tax but get a big refund.
Some people earn so much that they don't need a refund and pay no tax.
The rest of us flip the bill for everything.
Where's the uniformity of that?
Anonymous said...
Anon 9:20 am,
"The Fair Tax is not a middle class burden because it trashes the regressive PAYROLL TAX! This is a tax that hits every dollar of a "middle class" person's pocket considering it caps at $97,500."
You are making false or misleading statements. You are talking only about the FICA tax, which is social security and medicare. That rate is 6.25% for SS on the first 97.5K of income, and then stops at that amount The 1.45% medicare continues.
This is what the employer matches, and it is a small portion of the overall tax.
What actually happens is once you pass 97.5K you reach the capped amount for SS but the medicare is still a flat 1.45%, so the numbers aren't as dramatic as you make them seem.
"The "evil wealthy" make plenty of money beyond this cap and do not get the 15% (7.65 from you, 7.65 from your employer) shaft like we do up to this level."
What the heck are you saying? Everyone pays that rate up to that 97.5K cap level. After that amount the additional tax is only 1.45% for medicare.
"The FT will force those living on Capital Gains (15% tax rate compared to our 25% income tax PLUS 15% payroll) to contribute to our SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc."
You can thank Bush for the 15% rate on long term capital gains. Prior to his tax cuts for those who had enough money to invest in long term investments, the rate was higher. This is also the long term gains, not the short term tax. Also the person STILL has to pay income tax, so it isn't correct to imply the people with capital gains taxes pay no other taxes.
I paid capital gains tax on some trees I logged, and the profit also added to my income tax which was already a 35% bracket. I actually paid almost 50% tax on my tree money. Let's not imply that the 15% capital gains tax made me pay less tax than someone paying an income tax. It didn't.
"It will also untax people up to the poverty level thus allowing citizens to go untaxed on the necessities of life, not to mention completely scrapping all penalties for investing and untaxing education."
Low income people already get an earned income tax credit, and already can pay almost zero tax. As a matter of fact they can already get back more than they pay in.
On the other hand the Fairy Tax will add cost at every stage of a goods transfer, and the tax rate is estimated by independent sources as required to be as high as 40% if ALL goods are taxed, including transactions between businesses or to Government use. This adds cost all through the process thate everyone, even the poor, will pay. If we don't do that the rate would need to be higher.
The rates sometimes quoted by Fairy Tax proponents is based on the entire amount of money changing hands. It doesn't count the giant sucking noise as people realize the way to save money is to barter or do transactions as below RADAR cash.
"You say that switching from an income tax to a consumption tax would be a bad idea but many economists think this is necessary to keep up in a global market."
The global market is what is bleeding us to death. It's absolute stupidity for the USA to think all barriers are bad. Europe has the European Community which makes it very tough for anyone else to sell into that community. Look at how their standard of living is holding, while the dollar is sinking as it goes to the Communists, the Arabs, and to poor nations.
"
I would agree considering the fact that European countries have shifted their tax collection to a similar idea- a VAT tax.
This keeps the tax burden off of your exports and on your imports so the playing field is leveled."
We already cut taxes on exports. Most businesses don't even have to pay tax on inventory or materials for export. As a matter of fact we are so dumb we give a tax break for exporting jobs.
" Obviously we can do nothing about cheap labor in foreign countries but the least we could do is allow our exports to be competitive by removing the embedded taxes."
Ever hear of an import duty? An import duty equalizes the difference in costs for manufacturing goods where labor standards or environmental standards are substandard to ours.
Europe doesn't do what we do. They tax things coming in. If I want to sell a widget to England I have to pay England for testing the widget to meet CE standards. Either I and/or the customer has to pay import duties. If someone in France sells to England they don't have pay for testing the product, they don't have to pay duty.
This is why the European Community Euro is getting strong against the dollar. It's a large part of the reason they aren't paying more for gas, but we are.
"Your statement that government needs a certain amount of money to function is absolutely true.
This is why the FT is designed to be completely revenue neutral. Based on the current needs of our government. The plus side is that nearly every economist that has studied this idea has concluded that this will increase our overall standard of living and increase our GDP in ten years when compared to our current system by 5-10%."
That isn't factual at all. There are many economists who view the Fairy tax as unworkable and devastating to our economy.
Like it or not the same overall tax dollars will be paid. Actually we would all have to almost double what we pay to make up for Bush's gross mismanagement. All that money is going to either come out of income or out of sales. If it comes out of sales everything we buy will get significantly more expensive. The only way to reduce tax will be to not buy any goods, including food.
A person making $300K a year simply needs to hord his money, or just buy things underground, and he will pay no more tax than a person making $30K a year.
The poor sap who spends nearly all his money on a car, house, fuel, food, and clothes will be forced to largely deal in an above ground economy at a 40% tax rate.
The people buying toys will simply "borrow" or "obtain" the toy off the screen of the taxman, as would the drug dealer.
I wish you were right, ut the truth is the little guy will get screwed. That will always happen until we get a no deduction flat rate income tax. As for foreign goods, we just need to imitate what the Europeans did. We need to dump all the poor countries and enter into pacts with people of equal wealth. That's what Europe did. It's working great for them.
To see how our systems compare just look at the price of the Euro compared to the dollar. Oil is $105 a barrel because the dollar is tanking out. The Euro's buy almost the same amount of oil they did three years ago.
Our economy is a house of cards. We perceive it to be the world standard, just like our health care, but the fact is we are in a bubble that is ready to burst.
Obama 'Frightens Me'. The Bible has warned us that 'A man will come from the East that will be charismatic in nature and have proposed solutions for all our problems and his rhetoric will attract many supporters!'
When will our pathetic Nation quit turning their back on God and understand that this man is 'A Muslim'....First, Last and always....and we are AT WAR with the Muslim Nation, whether our bleeding-heart, secular, Liberal friends believe it or not. This man fits every description from the Bible of the 'Anti-Christ'!
I'm just glad to know that there are others that are frightened by this man!
Who is Barack Obama?
Very interesting and something that should be considered in your choice.
If you do not ever forward anything else, please forward this to all your contacts...this is very scary to think of what lies ahead of us here in our own United States...better heed this and pray about it and share it.
snopes.com ..' confirms this is factual. Check for yourself.
Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita , Kansas.
Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii.
When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia.
When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school.
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, 'He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school.'
Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that that he is not a radical.
Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's
education.
Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta.
Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran.
Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama turns his back to the flag and slouches. Do you want someone like this as your PRESIDENT?
Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy.
The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!
Would you want this man leading our country?...... NOT ME
Osama bin Laden has been found.
He shaved, took a bath, put on a suit, and now he is running for president.
Great post 7:41, I believe you now hold the record for the longest post!
J/K, I will try to respond the best I can.
I SAID - "The Fair Tax is not a middle class burden because it trashes the regressive PAYROLL TAX! This is a tax that hits every dollar of a "middle class" person's pocket considering it caps at $97,500."
YOU SAID - "You are making false or misleading statements. You are talking only about the FICA tax, which is social security and medicare. That rate is 6.25% for SS on the first 97.5K of income, and then stops at that amount The 1.45% medicare continues."
"This is what the employer matches, and it is a small portion of the overall tax."
The Medicare tax does go on and I am sorry for not stating that. I was not trying to be misleading. The point I am trying to make is that "Regular Joes" get taxed for all their income by the payroll tax considering that most do not make beyond this 97,500 cap. If you were to consider the % of income being payroll taxed by the wealthy compared to the "Regular Joes" you would see the regressiveness of this tax.
And as for it being a small portion of the overall tax I will have to disagree.
This makes up 38% of all Federal taxes according to 2004 data, income taxes accounted for 43% (just for measurement). The cap has nearly doubled since 1991 when it was $53,400 trapping even more "Regular Joes" in this ever changing regressive tax.
AND, when your employer has to match your payroll tax with "his" money it is a lie. That matching "contribution" is a loss in your wages.
I SAID - "The "evil wealthy" make plenty of money beyond this cap and do not get the 15% (7.65 from you, 7.65 from your employer) shaft like we do up to this level."
YOU - "What the heck are you saying? Everyone pays that rate up to that 97.5K cap level. After that amount the additional tax is only 1.45% for medicare."
I agree. My point was that they don't get the shaft like the Regular Joe. This tax falls disproportionately on low and middle incomes hitting every dollar. Why should a dollar over 97500 be treated differently?
In your argument about people living off of Capital Gains you said, "Also the person STILL has to pay income tax, so it isn't correct to imply the people with capital gains taxes pay no other taxes."
I was referring to people who LIVE off of Capital Gains. They don't have an income tax and they don't have a payroll tax.
I stated that the FT would untax people up to the poverty level.
You said, "Low income people already get an earned income tax credit, and already can pay almost zero tax. As a matter of fact they can already get back more than they pay in."
This does not have a thing to do with ALL people being untaxed to the poverty level. You have shown one particular group, I am saying ALL.
YOU SAID - "On the other hand the Fairy Tax will add cost at every stage of a goods transfer, and the tax rate is estimated by independent sources as required to be as high as 40% if ALL goods are taxed, including transactions between businesses or to Government use. This adds cost all through the process that everyone, even the poor, will pay. If we don't do that the rate would need to be higher.
That is completely false. Only retail purchases will be taxed. There is no business to business tax costs. There is no embedded taxes. The Government WILL pay the tax. This will keep them from having an advantage over a private business and they already pay taxes now- embedded, payroll.
And it's not 40%.
I'm not going to argue with your opinion on a Global Market being good or bad. This doesn't fit in this discussion.
YOU - "We already cut taxes on exports. Most businesses don't even have to pay tax on inventory or materials for export."
There are still embedded taxes and tax compliance costs. I don't want to CUT these taxes I want to eliminate them.
Import duties would level the field but to what extent I don't know. I do know that it would force consumers in the US to pay more for that Chinese made widget because of the extra tax tagged on it. It would also push sales of American products up considering that prices would be more competitive. If overall wages would rise in step with this new tax it would be a great to us and a hit to China's pocket. If it just forced our consumers to buy a more expensive Chinese Widget then it would hurt us on our pocket books overall with little US Goods increase.
That's a totally different discussion but an interesting one.
YOU - "A person making $300K a year simply needs to hord his money, or just buy things underground, and he will pay no more tax than a person making $30K a year."
Why would this guy hord his money?
He would be able to invest it with no tax consequences.
If he bought things from an underground source he would be getting one over on the Ole' Gov. but he would also have to have this underground source that doesn't mind taking the risk of losing his business by cheating the system. There will ALWAYS be cheats in any system but under our current one you can cheat in the privacy of your own home without anyone knowing and a less than 1% chance of being caught.
Under the FT only retail level business will be under the scrutiny of tax enforcement officials. This would narrow down the possible cheaters by MILLIONS making the tax codes more enforceable.
YOU - "The poor sap who spends nearly all his money on a car, house, fuel, food, and clothes will be forced to largely deal in an above ground economy at a 40% tax rate."
This poor sap is dealing with a 15% income 15% payroll or 25% income 15% payroll right now.
When looked at TAX ECLUSIVE they amount to 18% income 18% payroll or 33% income and payroll being the same 18%.
These make a combined 36% (15% bracket) and 51% (25% bracket) tax burden on him now plus embedded taxes and tax compliance costs.
Under the FT he would be taxed 30% EXCLUSIVE (23%inclusive) on purchases (where he chooses to give up his money for taxes) and he would be untaxed on purchases up to the poverty level.
This can be done because of the size of your tax base under the FT which is the largest base possible- EVERYBODY that lives in the US or visits here legally or illegally.
I'm sure I probably missed some things that you posted but I tried to answer as much as possible that was on topic.
Jarad B.
You are missing many things. For example the tax rate you quote is based on a tax evasion rate less than the current 15 to 20%.
You (or the people you quote)also use state sales taxes as a model. But state sales taxes only tax about half of consumtion at best. It's a poor model for a federal tax which would rely on ALL consumption, even Government consumption, housing, and food being taxed.
It also ignores tax evasion. The "fairy tax" people assume, since it is a storybook "fairytale tax", no one would cheat at all.
Conservative estimates indicate the tax evasion rate will go from the 15 to 20% it is now to well over 30%. There will be more cheats because cheating will be much easier, so we would have to add an additional 20 percent to the estimates of required tax rates to allow for cheaters.
States would also have to shift to a consumption based tax, and that would raise the tax exclusive rate to consumers which includes the Government.
Any simple tax can seem like a good idea as long as we don't consider the pitfalls, or as long as we think no one will cheat or that no one will have to enforce the tax.
yall are wasting time talking about fairtax.....it aint ever gonna be brought up for a vote......the good people up north know it is a disaster and know it is totally unworkable......you can talk all you want to, but it aint gonna fly.......
you know 6:22PM, that's somewhat how things in government get worked out: People gather and talk about it, discussing the pros and cons, polishing an idea until it can be chaired for a vote. Therefore, your voice is that. One voice among many. Just because you are against the idea doesn't mean it can't be refined and voted on.
GM
Wives you better watch your husbands, something stinks in Locust Grove, Ga.
Please tell more
Yeah I've caught my boyfriend over there. Some woman named Cindy?????
Tuna!
Answers are easy. Questions are not.
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a
2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we're seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) the cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
3:10:
You can't fix stupid...as in Bush. It will take many, many years to repair the damage he's done.
Very insightful post, 8:35. You offer a strong argument to back up your argument.
1:14PM at least 8:35AM paints a good picture of stupid with their comment. The person didn't even understand the 3:10PM post.
What's really scary is that they let people like that vote.
Post a Comment