this is an open discussion forum. keep it clean. personal attacks on private citizens will not be tolerated. you may discuss politics if you like but you may not rip or endorse specific local candidates.
Monday, June 16, 2008
big economic development news: $266 million...
in additional investment in barnesville-lamar county.
$160 million green power plant.
$106 million in additional investment by general protecht.
Way to go IDA, what a great way to continue in providing a viable area to live and help maintain our tax base and a lower tax rate for those living here. It is also nice to see that the IDA is bringing in a good variety of industry to provide strong options and not putting all of our eggs in one basket.
Thanks to the IDA and staff for having a vision of the future.
Now, who thinks we ought to listen to the people who say everyone must go this election cycle. It might just be me but voting all these people out would be the most foolish thing that could be done. These people aren't just saying they are going to bring in new jobs and industry, they are doing it.
I don't think you will see many people object except perhaps those who live near the plant and especially downwind of the plant.
This new plant is a good thing overall for Barnesville and Lamar county. For one thing it does NOT displace American jobs elsewhere in the USA, and it isn't going to send money overseas to a Communist nation.
There is also a way to get tricks in and out without impacting Barnesville, although 18/41 might have increased traffic. I suppose they looked at that?
If the IDA didn't give away the farm like they have done with other businesses, like the plastic molding company or the wood products company or the Chinese, then we are in pretty good shape. This would be a little different than other IDA history that people wind up bitching about.
I don't think anyone bitches about the IDA, just what they sometimes give away and the fact Hardwick is serving illegally. The law is the law.
If the story is balanced and complete (something hard to do when the reporter serves on the IDA) and if we really are going to collect some reasonable tax money then it sure sounds good to me!
This doesn't change the fact some people on the commission have to go. Remember the ag authority money. When Barnesville hands the county back the million bucks or so they stole and our sissy commissioners stop letting them get away with crap like that things will be different.
why do my taxes go up with all this good news they shit on the historic districk again they shoud pay 80k per A like the coutie charges it is in the city limits
I'm going to withhold judgement until after someone other than Walter reports on all the facts.
One thing we should all keep in mind is only a small portion of the $266 million stays here. Most of it is spent outside the county.
What funds the county are mostly the taxes paid on equipment and other business property. We have no county payroll taxes.
The IDA has a history of exempting property taxes even long after the original terms run out.
So what do we have left when we read the deal? It appears we have $20,000 an acre property value that will be taxed. If they use 50 acres they will have the same property tax value as a single house on Thomaston Street.
Another positive is a few people in Lamar will get jobs. They will also buy some water from Barnesville, which is not helping fund the overall county.
In trade for this we are stuck with a facility that burns things to generate electricity. They can put any spin on it they like, but when anyone burns things in mass volume there is a change in the air.
I'm all for this kind of development if it doesn't change the environment and if it pays taxes, but if someone compromises the environment without contributing enough money to relieve taxes on residents we have to be very careful. We don't want to be duped into something that doesn't help us that we can't ever get rid of.
Remember, while the IDA has a history of bringing in business they do so by not taxing the business. It's a lot like the deals Lamar gets into with Barnesville, where Barnesville pretty much screws the county.
It will be interesting to read all the facts, not just what a member of the IDA like Walter wants us to think.
THIS SOUNDS WONDERFUL ..MY MAIN CONCERN IS THE POLLUTION ASPECT, I LIVE WITHIN A CROWS MILE OF THIS SITE..ONE THING I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE PUBLIC IS USUALLY NOT MADE AWARE OF THESE "DEALS" UNTIL IT IS A "DONE DEAL" !!!
this too will go they way of the other industries that have tried to locate here once they see the sorry lazy bums in the work force they wiil have to choose from---just another empty building and faded dreams
Is this the same plant that was slated to be built in Franklin, GA in Heard County? What caused the change in location? The site was in the news in Feb 2008 with it being built in Heard. Does anyone know what and why that changed?
It only Dane trying to agrivate the people posting comments. He likes to play with himself. I guess he is having fun at your expense. It takes a hell of a Dane to pat your own self in the middle of the back. Weird fellow!
It only Dane trying to agrivate the people posting comments. He likes to play with himself. I guess he is having fun at your expense. It takes a hell of a Dane to pat your own self in the middle of the back. Weird fellow!
I agree with the poster who asked why the IDA does this stuff in secret and then expects us to embrace it and accept it. I didn't elect the IDA, I don't want them controlling my environment or how tax money is distributed or collected. I don't even trust them.
After all one of the members was getting double tax benefits for homestead, and he and another have proclaimed they are smart enough to rewrite the laws any way they like.
I'm not against it or for it, but the citizens of Lamar county should have the right to decide what they want as a permanent polluter. Especially when that polluter enjoys tax breaks and other incentives.
We should all remember once something is here and has its foot in the door, it is here forever. Shouldn't the citizens decide what industries we want to start here?
Why not write a true unbiased story about the project, including details on the money we will actually get and what the changes in the environment will be?
6:16 is living proof that no matter what happens on this earth an idiot is always going to step forward to proved how big of an idiot he is. The reason they keep it a secret is so a dumbass like you doesn't blow the deal. They keep it a secret so some arm chair quarterback, and a fifth stringer at that, doesn't ruin something positive for everyone else that lives in the community. Get over it dude, tax breaks and incentives are how every county in America attracts businesses.
You are saying is an incinerator is a great project that will bring millions of dollars into the local economy.
You are saying 6:16 is a dumbass because he thinks the residents should control the development of the county.
Without using your foul mouth to insult people can you explain why residents shouldn't control the landscape of our county and what a giant incinerator project actually brings to our future?
Where is the General Protekt plant? I'm curious about that since the broker in Atlanta for that project has a history of projects going bankrupt after getting funds. Look his name up.
He's a dumbass because he isn't heard from until the decision is already made. Waiting until the decision is already made to start stirring up a stink is counterproductive to everyone. If he was truly concerned he would be a part of the decision process. He could achieve the status of decision maker instead of arm chair qb by putting together a winning campaign for county commission or city council, getting involved in chamber of commerce, or the IDA. He uses the disquise as I'm not a good old boy but he would rather spend his nights like most people with their families and having fun instead of going to countless meetings. I am just sick and tired of listening to complainers, moaners, and bitchers. If he wants to be a part of the decision, well do what it takes to be a part of the decision...other than that stop your whining once the decision is already made. Save the world, vote Obama.
Oh yeah, and the answer to your final part of the question is this. Since I am to preoccupied with my own life, I vote someone into local offices who I think will make sure they don't bring in something hazardous to our community. If they betray that trust and bring in a 24 hour sky filling smoke machine, then vote them out next election. Remember, he's the only one who can save the world, vote Obama.
Oh yeah, and the answer to your final part of the question is this. Since I am to preoccupied with my own life, I vote someone into local offices who I think will make sure they don't bring in something hazardous to our community. If they betray that trust and bring in a 24 hour sky filling smoke machine, then vote them out next election. Remember, he's the only one who can save the world, vote Obama.
He is a dumbass because like most people in the county he did not know what is happening in secret meetings.
He should not have been told what was happening because he might have objected to what five or six people think is good for all of us.
In order to not be a dumbass he has to join the IDA and attend the meetings so he can keep the meetings secret from other dumbasses that are not on the IDA.
Do have it right?
Now that that is straightened out and we know why he is a dumbass, what about the taxes and benefits?
How much money will adding a big incinerator add to the tax base? How much pollution will it add? How much will it lower our property taxes?
Now that we know what makes a person a dumbass, can you tell us how much money that thing will pump into the tax base?
You say if they screw up and this thing causes problem, then vote them out. I never voted for Walter Geiger and Gene harwick is on the IDA illegally.
How do we vote Walter off the IDA? How do we get Hardwick off since he is serving illegally?
If they allow this incinerator to be built and it causes a problem and we vote the IDA members we can all out, how do we get the incinerator out? Or are we just stuck with it forever?
When they run poop water through the cooling towers or cooling pond will it stink? If it stinks will they quit? Or are we stuck?
How much money do we actually get for this? If we own land near the incinerator will it go up in value?
At the risk of sticking my arm in a Hornet's nest, I agree with the other people in one respect. It would be nice for everyone to know all the pros and cons of things like this before the deal is done. No disrespect intended to you Walter, but since you serve on the IDA you can hardly be an unbiased reporter.
At this point I don't know if this is a good idea or not. I live downwind of this thing. I'd like to know a lot more about it and from an unbiased source. You all might be the nicest guys in the world but I don't think anyone on the IDA is especially technical.
Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I guess it depends on how close you live and where you get your water. I'd be willing to guess that there is more not said about it than the things the public is being told.
Better ask yourself - do my local government leaders really put my health and interest first?
The burning of waste merely results in toxins being emitted into the air or ending up in the food chain via ash sent to landfill. Incinerators, and in particular the release of dioxins into the atmosphere, when plastics are burned, have been linked with many health risks including the following: • cancer • reduced sperm counts • respiratory problems • immune system damage
http://www.ejnet.org/rachel/rhwn162.htm
Throughout the 1980s, however, evidence accumulated, indicating that incinerators make the landfill problem worse, not better. Incinerators do reduce the amount of material that must be landfilled. If you put 1000 pounds of raw garbage into a solid waste incinerator, you end up with somewhere between 250 and 400 pounds of ash; the other 600 to 750pounds has been released into the environment as gases and soot through the smoke stack. Incinerators do reduce the need for landfill space, but unfortunately they also increase the hazards of the material going into the landfill and therefore actually make the groundwater pollution problem worse. As this fact becomes more widely understood, citizens are focusing their opposition on landfills that accept ash from incinerators, thus making the political problems of solid waste disposal as bad as, or worse than, they were before incineration was proposed.
The incinerator is not supposed to be for garbage, it is for biomass. That of course doesn't mean it will always be used exclusively for biomass.
Lamar County has a very poor history of making agreements that stick, and I certainly don't trust Barnesville to do what is good for the county. For example years ago the County let an auto repair business startup on 36 near the Interstate. They allowed it under the agreement it would never service big trucks or have big trucks on the property. Today it is a junkyard for big trucks, and big trucks are the primary business. If the City and County follow in the poor management footsteps of the past they won't put any real controls on the future of that plant and what they do. Once that plant is built it will be tough to limit what they do, just like that truck junkyard they started by agreeing to an auto service place.
My other concern is technical. I don't trust any of the people negotiating this deal to be technically astute or cautious. In my opinion none of them have a stellar track record in looking out for the County’s future. I wonder about things like the transportation method of the products to be burned, any lock on what materials can be burned, where the ash goes and how it is removed, if the gray water used will be in a closed system until cooled and returned, if additional power lines will be required and where they will run, and so on.
My bet is they didn’t ask many hard questions. On a positive note they are all good buddies with each other.
When I did consulting work for a large government agency that was critically responsible for lives, we always included people who were not of the same mold in think tanks. We avoided killing people that way. Yes men make poor planners.
ive been waiting all my life for someone to build a giant incinarator down the road from me. praise the lord my dream is finally comming true. this is the first time i can say im really proud to be a barnesvillian.
I think the city didn't want to talk to a local reporter last week about this project because they already knew it would be a public relations disaster.
Let's hope thats what it becomes for those reposnsible
Biomass refers to living and recently dead biological material that can be used as fuel or for industrial production. Most commonly, biomass refers to plant matter grown for use as biofuel, but it also includes plant or animal matter used for production of fibres, chemicals or heat. Biomass may also include biodegradable wastes that can be burnt as fuel. It excludes organic material which has been transformed by geological processes into substances such as coal or petroleum.
9:29AM it would be hard for me to believe that the incinerator will be used only for biomass. The site location alone disqualifies that statement in my opinion. I don't think a company would commit that much investment to burn biomass only. A litte lightbulb came on and ask where all this biomass will come from. Additionally, 10:44AM brought up a good question about treated lumber being burned.
I don't have the knowledge to know if this is a good or bad idea. We rely on people we elect to research and find answers but I believe they look at things like this as an economic plus for the county without considering any pitfalls or hazards. I discussed it with an engineer and was told that waste incinerators have improved over the last 10 years and don't present the hazards they once did but they still presented some hazards. This should be studied and the people of the county - esp those who will live within 3 miles of the site - should be made aware of the pros and cons.
Sounds like a Rock Quarry all over again. Just in a different backyard. Ya'll should have helped with the Rock Quarry fight. Do you expect the north end of the county to help now?
the county water dept wont have to start laying water lines to the parts of the county that doesnt have county water now.....there wont be enough water left, after this big plant buys all the water they are going to need.....the whole county will see the bad effects of this deal.....only the incumbent politicians will be helped....they will get massive donations to their re election bids.......it is just politics, people, not rocket science
Go ahead and fight this like you did the rock quarry. Look how far all that got you...no where because they are grading the land right now as we speak.
Why on earth would they keep this all secret if it was on the up and up? If it is such a good deal, why wouldn’t they publish the details before making any kind of agreement?
Something smells already and the incinerator isn’t even built yet.
I think we should push to see what tax breaks they get, where the money comes from, and what assurance we have they won’t use this as a foot in the door to burn other things. I’d like to know exactly what they asked about in detail.
I would like to know what legally binding assurance we have they will always burn only the biomass outlined, and never burn anything else. I’d like to know about the traffic and ash disposal and about interconnections to the power grid. What assurance do we have this thing will never get bigger, or change to something else.
By the way, plants like this are called “green” because they are in the cycle of carbon already in the environment. They don’t unlock stored carbon, and they release less methane than if the same biomass decomposed slowly in a landfill. The tradeoff to that, and everything has a tradeoff, is everything is released at once in one location. While the net output of destructive byproducts is less, what is released occurs all at one time in one location.
It isn’t like everyone in the world is clamoring for an incinerator and we have to secretly sneak it away from them.
Tom why are you seeking Gary out as some type of know it all. He made up all types of allegations and claims against everyone in the city and county government, took these claims to the highest authorities in Ga and came up with nothing. So he is nothing more than a blow hard.
After the plant was up and running 600 residents of Cadillac Michigan had to show up at a meeting to stop this wonderful new "green company" the IDA brought to us from burning old tires.
Would you like to hear more about the plant? There is a good deal more that is interesting.
I hope the members of the IDA were very careful in what they committed our community to.
Would you like me to post what the EPD in Michigan says about the "green plant" you want to bring to our community?
If so, let me know.
You guys really have to break up your little yes-man club and get some different people with objective views to balance out what you do. Get some legal people on the IDA or someone with a science or engineering background. Otherwise you will ruin this community.
You can't be too careful with what you drag into our community!!
The Herald Gazette reported Rollcast Energy, Inc. will locate a $160 million green power plant here that will provide nearly 50 megawatts of electricity, 22-25 jobs and a payroll of $1.2 to $1.5 million. Let’s look at that:
22 jobs at 1.5 million is 68,182 dollars a year average wage. 25 jobs at 1.2 million dollars is 48,000 dollars a year average wage.
says the plant shown in the Herald-Gazette is a 38MW (megawatt) power plant. The one proposed here is claimed to be 50MW. The local plant will be 130% of the Cadillac plant in the Herald-Gazette.
The latest EPA permit for Cadillac is at: http://www.deq.state.mi.us/aps/downloads/ROP/pub_ntce/N1395/N1395%20Staff%20Report%205-06-08.PDF
Read it carefully, especially the reason it is required. The permit is required because plants like this are considered major polluters.
It shows the plant releases:
TOTAL STATIONARY SOURCE EMISSIONS Pollutant Tons per Year Carbon Monoxide (CO) 358 Lead (Pb) 0.01 Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) 245 Particulate Matter (PM10) 46 Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) 1 Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) 4
358 tons of carbon monoxide, 20 pounds of lead, 245 tons of Nitrogen Oxides, 46 tons of particulates, a ton of sulfur dioxide, and 4 tons of volatile organic compounds per year are released into the air at 38 MW of advertised power.
If we scale this linearly to the 50MW the paper claims we will have, that’s 465 tons of CO, 26 pounds of lead, 319 tons of NOx, 60 tons of particulates, 1.3 tons of SO2, and 5.2 tons of volatile organic compounds.
I suggest we name the smokestack after the members of the IDA, and bill them for the time we will spend watching this plant to be sure they never burn tires.
OK IDA members, to keep the rest of us from having to listen to Tom Rauch, will you please consult him before making any decision whatsoever in the future. Thank you.
I assume you don't think dragging a power plant that could burn tires or release 1000 tons of stuff into the air every year is a matter for the public to know about in advance or have a voice in.
I also assume you don't mind the smell of most of 700,000 gallons of gray water (ever smell that stuff) that will be evaporated every day from that plant's cooling system.
I'm of a different opinion. I don't think a few buddies on the IDA should stick a major smokestack source in our community through secret negotiations.
I'm of the opinion they should have presented this to the community first.
I know you guys love looking at the negative but one thing that even you must acknowledge is the fact that several of the decision makers are raising their kids relatively close to where this project is being built. If they really thought this was going to have a negative impact on their kids, these people would without question pass on it. I am positive in making their decision they thought about their kids and family who are breathing the same air as everyone else. There are pros and cons to every issue but just give these people the benefit of the doubt that these leaders love their families as much as you love yours and would make decisions accordingly.
its illegal for george butler to be on the IDA he lives elsewhere,,, its a conflict of interst for the news paper editor to be on the board,,he should be booted immediatley
Bringing up the judgement or honesty of people on the IDA is a very poor way to sway anyone. The concern should be the plant and how the deal was done, and not the personal lives of the members themselves.
Even if what you said was true and there were IDA members raising children near the proposed plant, it wouldn't prove anything about the plant itself. The debate would only shift to personal discussions, and not focus on the incinerator and why the community should not have known about it.
Pollution from plants like this is a major concern.
For example the Times-Herald has an article reporting the Heard County plant proposed by Rollcast "has also amended its permit application with the Air Protection Branch of Georgia Environmental Protection Division to address EPD's concerns over the facility's high level of air toxins."
It is good common sense that when any authority is going to drag a polluter into a clean environment like Lamar County, citizens should know about it up front.
If a majority of residents feel the change is worth it, then the IDA should go ahead.
I don't know about your feelings WDM, but my feeling is the USA should get back to being a democracy. I just don't feel good about a handful of people, half of whom weren't elected and one of whom is on the IDA illegally through altering of public records, making choices about my air for me.
Anonymous @ 8:28 PM and 8:37 PM. Thanks for your wonderful analysis of me. I prefer to be a blow hard or as you say "a f****** idiot" over a coward hiding behind the name anonymous. Please, you name one "made up allegation" that I made. Not all types - just one.
I’m sure you must be relating to the Ag Authority. It wouldn’t surprise me to know that you are in some way connected with the deed. Perhaps you are an Ag Authority member, or maybe a commissioner or city council member, or even a BOE member.
It is cowards that allowed our county to be robbed of our assets and would prefer to sling mud from a distance rather than get involved. But I guess that is water over the dam now.
Tom is making some very good comments. Everyone should be concerned about what a few people allow to happen in our county. I can only believe that only a real idiot would have zero concerns. The real problems are people that allow government to do as they want without questioning anything they do because they are scared to get involved. It's kind of like making comments under anonymous.
Of course, people like you are entitled to your opinion. I respect yours regardless of the displayed level of education which it is given.
wdm - I can't see where we are looking for negatives. I see the environmental impact from the plant being questioned. I see the future health of Lamar County residents being questioned. Will this be a wolf in sheep’s clothing? Many people complain about cigarette smoke and remain quite about something potentially much more devastating. Right now is the time to ask the hard questions. It’s much easier to prevent a mess than to try and clean it up afterwards.
Your negativity tries to paint a picture of these people making uneducated decisions. The people on the IDA are pretty astute people. They have and raise their families in this area and I am quiet positive there were some serious inquiries and research on the environmental impact it would have. You two act like you are the only people smart enough to questions the environmental concerns. Well, boys, all your questions were already asked and answered, you just weren't present at the meetings.
hey boys wdm says your questions were already asked and answered. he must have been at the secret meetings and have read all the secret papers. if he was not at meetings then he must be a chronic liar or maybe he is peter banks little lap dog.
yall might as well shut up.....the deal has been made and there is nothing you can do about it.....people spend money to get power.....they might as well reap the rewards......you cant do anything about it....and if you boot them out, they will be replaced by the same......once someone get power, they get hungrey for more, and the common people get screwed.......people in power dont have problems and therefore dont see our problems.....their lives become easy and everything works out well for them
I believe a combination of three things has happened:
1.) The people on the IDA were duped into thinking this plant produced no pollution. "Green power" is really a buzz word that indicate the plant does not bring trapped carbon from oil or coal into the environment. It does not mean the plant does not release emissions.
2.) The people on the IDA think the rest of the community is too stupid to participate in a rational discussion and make a logical decision about locating a power plant here, so they made the choice for us.
3.) The IDA members feel important when they toss around big meaningless numbers. For example they say the "land will be returned to the tax rolls at a valuation of not less than $20,000 an acre" or $160 million investment.
Look at the land. If the plant uses 30 acres and if it is really in the tax rolls right away at that value, we have added $600K to the property values. That times a millage rate of around 30 mills means they added $18,000 to our tax digest. That's about like ten houses with homestead exemptions, which Mayor Banks now knows only can be used on one house at a time.
Factually most of the money will be spent other places, not here.
My son in Ohio might get some of the money because he is an engineer at a company that makes boiler controls for power plants. My nephew in Atlanta could get a large chunk because he sells power plant equipment including generators and turbines.
The 160 million will actually be spread all over the world, with some even landing in the USA.
Even Lamar will get a tiny slice of that 160 million for things they buy here. Unfortunately they won't buy the expensive stuff here.
If things worked the way they should, the equipment would be taxed. Then the 160 million investment would significantly increase tax revenues. But the IDA doesn't work that way. The IDA exempts them from tax for years and years, until the equipment depreciates down to a value where not much tax is paid.
If the IDA really wanted to be direct and honest, they would release the agreement so we all could see exactly how much revenue we get out of those huge impressive headline numbers. We could see if the income from having the plant outweighs the cost of lowering our air quality and increasing truck traffic that hammers our roadways.
My bet is they want to spin this thing into impressive looking numbers because they think the community is too dumb to ask questions. I'd like to know the real numbers we get in trade for the burden of a power plant that is powered by an incinerator, and what gurantee we have that they won't apply for permits to burn other things later.
Really, they are not just talking --they are doing it????????? Like the Chinese Factory that was going to bring lots of jobs and revenue to the County ----- Huh? (2years) It really amazes me how "elected" officials want to step up to the plate and make it look like they are doing their job when it is time to be re-elected. Way to go! I believe you ----NOT!
Tom, you are pot stirrer, plain and simple. Maybe you haven't noticed but everything you comment on is some big cover-up or a conspiracy theory. Get over it...they aren't trying to spin anything into anything. Either we use oil, natural gas, or plutonium to fire reactors or we can try this new way of using wood waste products. Quit putting down the people who are actually out doing something to make our county a better place. If you are so much smarter than everyone else as you try to make yourself appear, run for election or put your name in for a board appointment.
Why beat a dead horse? It is obvious that some people don't have the mental capacity to recognize questions of concern over stirring the pot. You should have applied for your permit to voice an opinion from the wdm office of higher intelligence. Congratulations on your appointment to pot stirrer. If you continue with your efforts, you may be eligible to join me at the “blow hard” or “f****** idiot” level very soon. However, I’ll probably get another promotion after the release of this comment.
I am always amazed when people try to question wrong or improper actions or voice their concerns about a subject only to be tagged with another name for doing it. It is obvious that Mr. WDM is the self appointed local government liaison crisis manager for all actions taking place in the county, right or wrong, good or bad, legal or illegal. Some people just don’t understand that communication is a two way process requiring a sender and a receiver. I can only assume that your efforts to engage in effective communication are futile at best when attempting to reach some people.
I apologize to you Tom if you receive and interpret the efforts of this dialog as inappropriate. I am exhausted from burying that dead horse. It was a big horse. Regardless, I’m equally sure at least one scavenger will come along to dig it back up.
What's illegal? Your interpretation of the law? gmc you had your day in court and it said you were wrong with all your allegations. You should apologize to those people who you so eloquently defamed during your last tirade. What happened to all that money everyone was donating to fund your last legal battle versus Lamar County? Did you get to keep it?
Are you really that stupid or do you have to work at it? Your comment deserves no reply. You have just demonstrated you complete ignorance in that case. It is my whole hearted opinion that if brains were gunpowder you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.
Once again you can only jack your jaws about something totally alien to you. I'll tell you what. You prove that I was wrong in the Ag Authority challenge and I'll publish an apology in the newspaper.
Officials say $160 million power plant slated for Georgia The Associated Press
BARNESVILLE, Ga. — Officials in Lamar County {WHO) say a $160 million plant will produce electricity from biomass and create up to 25 jobs and a payroll of up to $1.5 million. The officials (WHO) said Monday that Rollcast Energy Inc. has chosen to locate the plant on about 60,000 square feet in the middle Georgia county, in a forested area that will produce a buffer, The Herald-Gazette of Barnesville reported. (WHO INFORMED THE GAZETTE) The plant will burn wood waste from logging, land-clearing operations and other sources (WHAT OTHER SOURCES) to heat a boiler and create steam to produce almost 50 megawatts of electricity — enough for 40,000 homes — to be sold to a utility company (GA POWER). The plant, known as Piedmont Renewable Power, will use 700,000 gallons a day of gray water from Barnesville's sewage treatment plant for cooling purposes. (WHAT A AROMA IT WILL BE) (THEN WHERE DOES THE WATER GO)
i would like to know how much tax money we are really going to get from all this. i dont like the fact sewage water is going to be evaporated. wont that stink.
www.jasonpye.com then search towaliga SOME INTERESTING STUFF. A friend of mine called me from Griffin to tell me about this. Cops making firearms available to convicted felons. I thought that was illegal.
Tom and gmc made some good points. We should be better informed by the people making the decisions that affect us. All we know is what we are told. We ought to make a comettee to find out all the truths. This should be talked about at one of the concerned citizens meetings and Tom and gmc should come. I want my kids to grow up in a safe place.
Jack Harris and I talked to two different lawyers about the Ag Authority money. The County Commissioners shirked their responsibilities when they did not force the City and the Ag Authority members to do things legally and properly.
The only thing a lawsuit could have been would be a lawsuit to force commissioners to follow the law and do their duty to the citizens of Lamar County. The County Commission would have had to replace their long time friends and family on the Ag Authority so the Authority could undo the illegal or irresponsible transaction with the City, or they would have had to sue the City to undo everything.
Gary’s mistake was not asking what this lawsuit would cost up front. It could have cost as much as $20K or more to force the Commission to do their elected duties. Then it would cost the taxpayers to sue the City, and the Lamar Schools and Gordon or whoever else was involved in the crooked transaction if indeed it could be forced to be undone.
Sometimes when a Governing body is incompetent it becomes too expensive to force them to act responsibly.
Let me give you another example. Someone I know claims to have overheard Patty and Gene Hardwick in a room altering the code book so Hardwick could serve on the IDA. I wasn’t sure if that was true.
When I looked at the code book, it changed. The original wording of the code book changed. As a matter of fact if you go to the Library and get the County Code, the sentence that prohibits Hardwick from being on the IDA is in that book. It only disappeared from the book in the County Offices. Now I can’t say what that person said was accurate, and that Patty and Gene actually changed the code book as claimed. I can tell you an earlier picture I have of the code book now disagrees with the present book, and the copy in the library disagrees with the code book that was in the Courthouse.
Maybe the code book fairy landed in the courthouse and changed the words. I have no idea.
This type of thing, along with the Ag Authority fiasco, makes me have a low level of confidence in the honesty and integrity of these Authorities and the candidness and openness and truthfulness we can expect from them. Especially when we look at past members and how they turned out for our community.
I’ll wager anyone here $100 that the IDA is giving the polluting “Green” power plant a considerable break on taxes and they also didn’t have the foresight to limit what they can burn to wood in the future. I wouldn’t expect a group of people who disregard the feelings of the people they represent to suddenly change overnight.
Why we give an unelected Authority the power to control our money or lives, especially with a commission that doesn’t monitor their friends, is beyond me. Someone has to watch these people if the commissioners won’t. I guess it won’t be people like you WDM, so we will just have to accept Gary’s help. I feel much better with Gary watching them than I do with someone shaking a totally empty head “yes”.
Tom Rauch I don't believe we have ever met, if we have please forgive me. You are correct about the Commission Chairman was according to code who was supposed to on the IDA. That was why I served on the IDA during my four years in office. Was it leagally changed after I left office I don't have a clue. I can only say the Chairman during my time was the representative on the IDA, in code.
The simple answer is to have the county office show you the minutes of the meeting where it was changed.
Walter, might be good investagative reporting for you. What do you think?
We all should take our local politicians and our local election much more seriously. In addition to their primary duties, those that we elect should be responsible for their appointed authority members and the actions of the authority. Right now it is full of crooked deals, buddy helping buddy, show me the money, and borrowing a similar phrase, asking NOT what the county can do for me but how much can I take from the county. Power corrupts, but total power corrupts totally. The state won’t get involved in local government so it’s up to the people to oversee local government’s actions. We as a people have done a poor job overseeing or either we don’t care.
It’s easy to stand up in front of people and say I’m honest and I have lots of integrity only to have a hidden agenda the people never see. It’s another thing all together to prove the honesty and integrity. Once you prove it you earn the people’s respect, which is all together different from the respect toward the office held. If people we elect only have the respect that goes with occupying the office, they need to be replaced with people that want to EARN the respect from the people that elect them.
Thank you for backing me up. The law says two things:
1.) The Commission Chairman shall serve on the IDA.
2.) People holding other offices shall not serve.
After you left office Burnette decided to let Hardwick serve for him even though it was illegal. When a few people started raising caine about it, the code books were altered. I think revision 16was the last book that included the legal text, and then revision 17 was altered.
This was done without a hearing so there is no record of the change. It was done right before Patty left employment.
Anyone with common realizes the position this puts us in. Our elected officials are allowing people to falsify documents.
This creates two problems:
1.) If we can't trust a person to do small things legally, like change the code legally through hearings so he can sit on an Authority, we probably cannot trust that person on larger issues.
2.) When a person we elect asks a county employee to alter legal documents it teaches the employee that the law or honesty does not really matter.
When we look back at the history of the county, these two things explain a great deal.
The IDA has had a history of allowing dishonest people on the Authority. For example one of the past IDA members offered to buy land from me with cash and falsify records so we could avoid paying taxes.
This is why I don't trust a thing they say about the new incinerator they are bringing into our community.
If the IDA doesn't have the common sense to ensure members have good moral and ethical backgrounds, they they probably don't have enough collective common sense to make good deals for our county.
got news for ya. this is 1 of 2 planned incinerators. this one is gona boil the stinky water with wood and old tires and the other one is gona burn the garbage at the dump. we going to be one of the major contributors of air pollution in georgia while we try to poison our water at the same time. free healthcare lamar gona need it.
we need a dump for local waste besides my neighbors back yard that is full of old cars and trucks that are full of rats and trash. when his trucks fill up with trash faster than he tears up the one he is drivin now he will have to use a dirt road and the county will have to haul it to a dump. i dont think we need to ask other people to bring us trash or old wood so someone can burn it to make money lessen they leave all the money here for me.
Gary go get a life and while you’re at it find one for Tom and Kent also. All you do is bitch. If you spent half as much time helping the community as you do writing novels on this blog you would probably be citizen of the year. Join a local club, volunteer at the nursing home. People might take you serious if you actually did something with your time verses sitting in front of your computer complaining about everything.
The "Project Brown" Memorandum of Understanding released by the IDA says:
1.) There can be up to 15 years of tax abatements on land, buildings, and equipment at the site. (Warning: The IDA also has a history of expanding tax abatements.)
2.) The City of Barnesville will sell water to them as well as waste water. They will pay for the 20k to 50k gallons of potable water a day at a rate of $2.33 per thousand gallons, so Barnesville will get to sell water worth 47 to 116 dollars a day to the site. That rate might vary if the rate to other industrial users changes.
3.) There is NO agreement to limit what they burn. Everyone agreed the initial air permit applied for by the developer will be to burn only non-fossel fuels and no tires.
4.) There is a clause that the developer can change the use of the site from a biomass (which already includes more than wood) fueled power facility to something else so long as they ask in writing. The IDA agreed to not be "unreasonable" in its reaction or response to any requested change.
There is nothing in the understanding that locks this plant into just burning wood, the size of the plant, or the amount of pollution other than what the EPD allows.
Now the plus side is Lamar could get a few hundred thousand dollars or more of tax from the incinerator in a few years, and we will get around 20 jobs. Tax wise it is like adding 200 fairly nice houses to the tax digest. That's pretty good if the IDA doesn't expand the breaks or write some unusual bond.
The tradeoff is we have invited an air polluter into our county without any real agreement they will never be worse then they are when they arrived. We have opened a door.
hey old blue. tell me where they are wrong. what did they say that is wrong. dont shoot the messengers cause you dont like the message. maybe you one of the good ole boyz and are pissed becase you cant get your way as easy as you used to do.
I am not complaining about anything. I am simply trying to share what I know on one particular subject that seems to be of public interest. It is a shame you can't discern the difference. Sorry, have to go and work.
kent dont worry about them. they signed an agreement that they would hide as much information about the plant as they can legally hide and that they would side with the plant instead of the citizens. i just read it now. it is in the agreement.
i want to know why they have to sign an agreeement they will hide things as much as legally possible and sign an agreement they will defend the plant and talk to the plant defore releasing any information. that makes it sound like they are planning on misleading us as much as possible.
ward four catches hell, lynn wilson is useless to the people of ward four. first a secrest release prison built in the woods no public hearing now a burn pitt no pulic hearing..ward four needs a new guy
stop complaining. the good old boys are working hard for you. you are just to stupid to know what is good for you. shut up and let someone who is smarter then you tell you what you should think. thats why we are blessed to have the good ole boys to take care of us and watch out for us.
Blue, I can only assume that you are one of the notorious individuals hiding behind an alias who blind sides the citizens far too often. I can understand. Nobody likes attention when anything is planned that might not be on the up and up and needs to stay hidden from the public. Therefore maybe you should get a life and include all your little cronies. Stop the deceit, the behind doors negotiations, and the omission of county resident concerns. Build a trust within the county and we won’t watch so hard. Until then, get used to being watched.
notice they got nothing positive to say about the burn pit they want. the only thing they can do is attack the people that are smart enough to know its a half assed idea.
They did not have a lot of anything negative to say either. So many of you can not read. All I could see was questions being asked about the pros and cons along with questioning the IDA and the commissioners present actions based on the past performance. I think most of you see dollars signs, jobs, and reduced taxes and refuse to look at what expense. That my friends is a sign of real stupidy based on all the critizing going on. I don't have to get hit in the head with a hammer to know all the attacks on Tom, Gary, and Kent are coming from people trying to justify what they already did behind everyones back. You need to understand that everything that happens in our area affects us all to some degree and that everything needs a sanity check. I am happy we have people willing to take a bashing to voice questions. Just because some serve in elected or appointed jobs don't make them right. If I use your thoughts about these same things and applied them to politics today then G. Bush is the smartest man in the world. A word to wdm. Gary never had a day in court. He tried to do something for all of us and only a few people tried to help. We can only blame us for losing what we lost but we can do our part to make up for it when we go to the polls and vote next time.
I called residents in Cadillac also. I received positive comments. Some noise from a dozer but minor was what I was told. There were some "close by" residents who put up a fuss for a while but there was no real issue for them other than some noise from equipment that was described to me as a faint sound if you knew what you were trying to listen for. The real complaints were when a tire burning permit was applied for. It was not permitted. No smell, smoke or loud noise. I was told by this random resident that you would not even know it was there unless you were told it was there.
Call information in Cadillac MI. give a random name get their number, call and ask about the energy plant. It took me a few tries to get someone. Two different people did not know what I was talking about. They had been there for 3 & 5 years. The one that I did speak with had been there over 25 years and had no issues with it. He said they were a good business for the town.
I trust Walter on this since he has a large real estate investment near the site this is going to locate. I dont think he would hurt the value of it by supporting a hazardous industry by it.
IS NOT THIS THE SAME THING THE SOLID WASTE AUTHORITY APPROVED TO HAVE AT THE LANDFILL TO BURN WASTE AND GENERATE ENERGY. YOU PEOPLE DID NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. WHY? I THINK IT IS BECAUSE YOU HATE THE IDA & CITY OF BVILLE. YOU WOULD BITCH IF "MICRO-SOFT TYPE" COMPANY CAME HERE BY WAY OF THE IDA & CITY.
Tom, The concerned citizens meeting was mentioned. That would be a good place to start. I would like to know what info you gathered. We could get Missy and other IDA members to come also and defend their actions so they can't say that they didn't have the opportunity to comment. Additionally, maybe the anonymous who was afraid to identify themself could come and share their findings. I would also be interested if the site is being located on an IDA members property. We would need to ckeck the records for any type of conflict of interest.
I am not 10:15 but I do agree that it is the same thing if not a bit more concerning since the landfill will burn anything that is dumped at the landfill and not just wood waste. Please educate us Tom on how the landfill's burner is different of better than what is being proposed now.
I am not being ugly towards you. I simply don't know the difference and you indicate you do.
I don't have to trust anyone on blind faith with some silly reason like "Walter owns land so I trust him" or the "I talked to people up there and they like it".
If anyone is interested in the whole true story, I can supply it without spin. We are being lied to.
They are going to bring this thing in here and there is no protection at all in what they burn in the future. If this one month old Delaware Corporation decides they want a tax-free ride, the IDA has agreed to do it.
The plant owners have seduced the Mayor of Barnesville and the IDA into allowing a permanent polluter into our air. The IDA, of which Walter is a member, has signed on to filter any information to the maximum extent the law allows.
The trade we get for this is if the company asks the IDA, the IDA will do everything it can to secure bonds. The IDA will won everything. The IDA is tax exempt.
When the equipment is new and has maximum value, they will pay no tax. As the equipment gets older and has less value, they might start to pay tax.
What this really amounts to is the IDA has allowed a major polluter into our county that we will never get rid of. There is no lock against burning other things.
This is why happens when a handful of friends starts making decisions for the rest of the people. They cover each others tracks and make sure the rest of us never get all the facts.
Is it just me or does anyone else notice that it is always the same few folks complaining about everything that goes on in Lamar county. If I was so upset the way things are I would move far away from here. (hint-hint)
I wont call any names on here but I am sure some certain one or two people will make thier usual statements to the commissioners and council how bad this is and how it is going to destroy Lamar County and the sky will fall and the sun will turn blue and the air will dry up and the water will turn purple and the farts will smell good (just made that up) and life is going to suck.
In 100 years or really much less for many of us this all wont make a shit. So get over it, laugh a little, go fishing, have a beer turn up the radio and sing out loud like you think you can sing and enjoy the ride 'cause we all just passing through!
Tom, since you know so much about this topic please educate us on the difference of this and the one the solid waste authority is proposing. Or is there a difference?
And i understand about the spelling. no need to go back and explain. we knew what you meant. own not won.
tom is doing his level best to give you some facts but most of you just don't give a rats ass and look for fault in everything he says. its easy to see where the real stupid is and its not with tom. either its stupid people in the county or ida or lcl gov running blocker. which is it. i dont think the people are so stupid as to not want the truth so it has to be blockers.
The highly toxic fly ash must be safely disposed of. This usually involves additional waste miles and the need for specialist toxic waste landfill elsewhere, sometimes with concerns for local residents.
Incinerators emit varying levels of heavy metals such as vanadium, manganese, chromium, nickel, arsenic, mercury, lead, and cadmium, which can be toxic at very minute levels.
Incinerators produce fine particles and ultra fine particles in the furnace. Even with modern particle filtering of the flue gases, approximately 1/500 of these (by mass) are emitted to the atmosphere. Most of the filtration in baghouse filters occur in the filter cake formed on the surface, and not in the bag material itself.
Several European doctors associations (including cross discipline experts such as physicans, environmental chemists and toxicologists) in June 2008 representing over 33,000 doctors wrote a keynote statement directly to the European Parliament citing widespread concerns on incinerator particle emissions and the absence of specific fine and ultrafine particle size monitoring or in depth industry/ government epidemilogical studies of these minute and invisible incinerator particle size emissions.
Studies in Andover, Massachusetts strongly correlated 10 % property devaluations with close incinerator proximity
http://www.energyjustice.net/biomass/
The typical incineration plant for municipal solid waste is a moving grate incinerator. ... Dioxins and furans are considered by many to be serious health hazards
Recently there has been controversy over the difference between a biomass electrical generation facility and a waste-to-energy incinerator. Biomass is generally understood to be solid fuel derived from plant material. However, if the definition of biomass is broad enough to include municipal waste, this raises health concerns, since municipal waste is not considered a clean source.
I don't know a thing about the system at the landfill. I never even heard about it until tonight when I read something here on the blog.
We really need a citizens group that pulls together everything happening in the county.
I'd be happy to work with anyone else interested on things that have a long term effect on the community that can't be undone.
People need to think long and hard about this. Once someone spends 160 million, and the Memorandum includes a clause saying the IDA will do everything it can to secure the bond and own the assets, no one is going to let that plant shut down over emissions or smells or fuel types.
It isn't like we will be able to move another business into that plant if we get stuck with it. It will always be something that burns things for money.
Also, make no mistake about it, if the IDA owns that plant and leases it back to the company as the Memorandum states, what the IDA owns is tax exempt.
If you think the IDA is doing us a great service, go check on the tax money we get from the plastics plant and other major IDA projects.
They have bitten off a bit more than they should have with this thing. It is a system that converts things brought in by truck to heat. That heat is used to generate electricity that they sell.
The volume of things coming in to feed the plant depends on the amount of energy in what they bring in and the power they want to produce. A steady output of 50 million watts would require a large volume of wood, because wood doesn't have very high energy content.
We will have substantial costs with this thing. We will have low-end trucking (because transportation is a major cost in the fuel they use) hauling thousands of loads of wood into that plant. Besides the traffic we see and the diesel fumes, this will hammer our roads.
The plant will easily release several hundred tons of junk into our air, besides what the trucks and equipment used to turn the wood piles might produce.
Depending on where the wood comes from, they easily could drag insects and other things into this area. Remember this is all old junk wood or whatever else they might have to burn.
All of this can be looked at in advance, but my bet is the IDA just took their word everything will be fine.
If the plant here is anything like the plant in Michigan, we are heading for problems.
The spin or damage control will be that I'm the problem and I expect to be targeted in a negative way, but the facts will show otherwise. The facts will show these guys are playing us all for suckers.
tom you need to join barnesville.ning.com site and post the facts of the factory so we wont get this confusing watered down version that this media source is feeding us.
I think 10:15 has hit on a key point. How many of you who are so critical have actually called the IDA to get the details and facts about this company? Have you shown common courtesy in allowing the people who are working for the county the chance to answer questions, or is that option only open to people from Michigan? Maybe a better question is whether or not there is anything the IDA can say or do that you might agree with. If not, then why waste their time and yours?
Responding to the comment about "not liking it here and just move as far away......" If those of us who pay attention and really care move far, far away, that will leave those few of you who think you run this County (or want to run this County)to continue pissing in our face and telling us its raining! So you go Tom!!!!
like i said very early in this blog.......it doesnt matter what all of yall say about this.....you are just wasting you time....this is already a done deal.....it gonna happen.......you might as well get back to national politics and crime.....you aint gonna change the ida decision......people are already making plans as to how to spend the money
"How many of you who are so critical have actually called the IDA to get the details and facts about this company?"
What type of "details and facts" do you expect we will get from the IDA knowing they signed an agreement that anything they say will be restricted and hidden to the maximum extent the law permits, and anything they release will be mutually cleared with the company?
"Have you shown common courtesy in allowing the people who are working for the county the chance to answer questions, or is that option only open to people from Michigan?"
Anyone experienced in almost any area of life understands the best way to avoid future a problem is to learn from other's mistakes. This is why the plant from Michigan the IDA toured is a good model.
"Maybe a better question is whether or not there is anything the IDA can say or do that you might agree with. If not, then why waste their time and yours?"
I'm interested in the un-spun truth. If the facts show this is good for the community or if the majority of people think this is a good idea I will fully support it.
We need to know the truth, and sometimes that is hard to get from a small group of people who try to run things. Especially when they sign an agreement to give us one side of the story.
Tom is simply frustrated because he wants so badly to be someone...so he bitches and moans and complains. Bet he has never served in a volunteer capacity for anything in this town.
Let me set your mind at ease. We don't scare. All of you are going to have to come clean with this one. Forget the "spirit of the law", you better be withing the letter of the law. And if violations are made and the IDA owns it , they also own the responsibility of the fines.
Tom said "We really need a citizens group that pulls together everything happening in the county".
What do you have in mind?
9:28 with attitudes like that it's no wonder they been getting over on people for so long. just roll over and play dead is a poor way of thinking.
I would like to buy Tom for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he is worth. Man, I could move to the Bahamas and live in peace and tranquility forever.
I don't believe all the global warming bunk but I sure do hate the US going over to Saudi begging for more oil. And they get sucha kick out of seeing us squirm! WE REALLY NEED TO GET OFF OF FOREIGN OIL!!! They feed us one lie after another and what have we done about it? We have been sitting there and letting them and paying what they ask because they know we HAVE NO OPTIONS!! This is up to the individual.
I expect a few people to make this personal. That doesn't bother me in the least.
That really just shows there isn't a logical or reasonable answer to the points that were presented here.
1.) The IDA, despite what they might say, signed an agreement that allows the company to move in here tax free for the first year if they want the tax breaks. After that, depending on the abatement agreement, taxes as a percentage of tax value will increase slowly while the tax value itself decreases. When the tax rate is maximum most of the equipment will have little or no value.
2.) The IDA, despite what they might claim, has nothing in the agreement that controls what that plant can burn in the future. They can even change it before they start.
I guess we just have to trust a Delaware Corporation that was formed one month ago to do the right thing.
First we need to gather the facts and confront the IDA. If it is determined that the IDA acted inappropriately, we need to circulate a petition listing the facts and use it to demand the LC Commission and Barnesville City Council to remove the IDA members from the authority and we should hold the commission and council responsible for any damages resulting from the authority’s action including any depreciation of property values or the burning of any matter other than wood byproducts
Thanks for the enlightening words 8:47. First step, "...gather the facts..." I have been out of town for a few days and I must admit I was shocked to read that tom openly admits he has not read anything official or contacted the IDA about any of his concerns. Tom, listen to your friend 8:47 and gather facts first.
I have read the agreements between the IDA and the proposed plant carefully. I also understand the physics behind energy conversion. I have researched the permits and operation of the plant in Michigan that has been touted as an example of how well plants like this work. I have even talked at length with an IDA member.
Maybe you should gather facts before you offer advice? You look foolish when you chastise others for not doing what they have actually done.
1.) The IDA and City of Barnesville set no limits on what this plant can burn or what it can be used for, despite claims they did.
2.) The IDA promised tax abatement despite claims they did not.
3.) The plant in Michigan touted as clean has had some problems. Those problems should have been addressed in any agreement so we don’t have the same problems.
The people really should make decisions about what they want as permanent industries when those industries are major polluters. I don’t believe 8 people, with the only elected member serving illegally, should govern us.
Gene Hardwick, Chairman Kenneth D. Roberts, Vice-Chairman Bruce Akins, Secretary/Treasurer Phillip Bell Walter Geiger Raleigh Henry Jimmy Lyons Dr. Larry Weill
Do you think unelected people should control your money or commit your community to a long term relationship with a major source of pollution, or do you think the community should control it?
I see now. Tom just hates the IDA & the board members. He said for the record he was not opposed to the power plant. He is foolish! And who is this Ross lady making statements about IDA members profiting from this project. SLANDER SUIT!
And what does he mean by saying the grey water will smell? It is just his way of adding emotionaly charged crap to try and stir up crap!
wdm you think you are a gift to lamar county but you are one of the bigest ass kissing sobs around. so you think you can judge and not be judged. this blog only lets you think you are important.
Now we know that the dispatch web owner and Tom are behind the barnesvilleblog site. Just look at the photo of the local lumber yard plant. They are trying to give some smokey image of what they think the power plant will look like. Talk about being honest!
Tom Tauch said "I’ll wager anyone here $100 that the IDA is giving the polluting “Green” power plant a considerable break on taxes and they also didn’t have the foresight to limit what they can burn to wood in the future." It is now abundantly clear that the EPA application is for non-fossil biomass only and it would require consent of local officials to change that. Where do I meet you to pick up my $100?
4:25 wdm is good man, he is a very good man.So shut up knocking him. He is makes valid points that must be way over your head or you are too ignorant to percieve what he's relaying.
Congratulations wdm. You are treating Tom Rauch in the same way you have accused me of treating some of our elected members. The main difference is that Tom is a private citizen. I guess you and I are a lot alike with one exception. I question the actions of those in the public eye being paid by the taxpayer, and you question private citizens (the tax payers) for exercising their right to question those in the public eye being paid by the tax payer. Something smells really bad. I’d like to be the first to welcome you to a new, and now shared position of what you labeled me, of “Blow Hard”. Nothing personal intended. Check out the now similar reflection in the mirror.
gmc what gives you and Tom the right to publicly accuse local people without merit. He was blasting the IDA before he ever had a chance to read any agreement or contact the IDA what so ever. The same way you were calling out the county commission when the whole ag authority dissolution happened under a completely different administration. Before you call out long standing friends and people who work tirelessly for the community, you better come with some actual facts. The fact is he was wrong in his accusations just like you were wrong with yours.
wdm, And just like you are wrong with yours. No difference - only differences in opinion. One problem that you have is that when you are shown facts in black and white you still argue that it's made up or that something has to be wrong with it. You don't take the time to listen and comprehend what is being said. You see things only one way. If it's not your way, you refuse to look and listen. Again, nothing personal. I'm telling you what I see. That's why I told you to look in the mirror.
These people who you publicly call out so often are local people who for the most part have called Lamar County home their entire lives and their families live here. You called them incompetent and Tom called them non-trustworthy. I do have a problem with that because I do personally know some of these people. These people are very competent and they are very trustworthy and they do it for next to nothing as far as pay is concerned. You two are going to aggitate some of these good servants so much they are going to want to quit so they don't have to bear the brunt of your illusions of grandeur. So if you want to tangle on the blog keep talking smack about these people.
wdm, I knew I could count on you to unleash some type of character bashing or derogatory comments. I even went so far as to have this prewritten for use.
I have come to a conclusion that you live to disagree, fueled by your own ego and self-appointed need to fill important. It’s apparent to me that this blog fills the appetite for that void. You are entitled to your opinion and I will respect that. If you are willing to support everything and anything, without question, handed to you by our local governing leadership or appointed authorities’; that is your right.
On the other hand, Lamar County has been my home for 54 years. I or anyone else has the right to question any local governing official when I or they consider them wrong. I am sorry but you will just have to continue to have a problem because you know some of these people. I know them too. Just because I know them, or you know them, does not give them any special rights. Apparently, you think it does.
P.S. We don’t have to tangle on a blog. You can get my number from Walter and call me personally and we can make arrangements to meet in Barnesville if you are mature enough to engage in rational verbal communication. I’ll be happy to discuss any comments I’ve ever made. And you can feel free to bring the people you know that you say I have been so critical of.
the IDA can fool all the people some of the time, and WDM all the time.....folks, we is up to our alligators with a**holes.....lets quit this fussing and get back to local and national politics.....lets hope MCCAIN appoints the right people to the supreme court......the next 4 yrs is very important time, probably 2-3 appointments coming
I love it...now we can add psychoanalyser to gmc's repetaure. How could your friends and neighbors in your district not have elected you to county commissioner? gmc, just remember, talking about the issue isn't the problem it's the name calling of the people you do during your grandstanding that is the problem. Treat these people the way you would have wanted to have been treated if you had been elected and we will all get along just fine.
what tom doesnt understand is that the republicans in power dont care about pollution, health safty, global warming, and epa guidelines......they only care about bussinesses making money...
12:27 you are as clueless as your leader. He has already presented his evidence to the state in July of last year during the ag authority dissolution and they said he had no case. Look in the blog archives to July of last year and see what it says. His key piece of evidence is a 'legal opinion' not a 'legal fact' that was written by a lawyer not a judge.
wdm you are brainless. you don't know what you are talking about. one of them there gud ol boyz must have his puppet hand so far up your giant sized stinky keester your pupils look like fingernails. i know you think anything they do is good cause they give your family a big tax break. keep on sucking up to them but we know you are lying like a rug.
Why are you so angry with the local leaders? They are doing things that counties all over Ga would love to have happen to them. There is an old saying that applies to the IDA, the proof is in the pudding. They are landing quality industry and that benefits everyone who pays taxes in Lamar County. I don't understand why them doing so good seems to make you so mad.
176 comments:
Way to go IDA, what a great way to continue in providing a viable area to live and help maintain our tax base and a lower tax rate for those living here. It is also nice to see that the IDA is bringing in a good variety of industry to provide strong options and not putting all of our eggs in one basket.
Thanks to the IDA and staff for having a vision of the future.
Come old time Barnesville folks, Start bitchin. I know you want to.
Now, who thinks we ought to listen to the people who say everyone must go this election cycle. It might just be me but voting all these people out would be the most foolish thing that could be done. These people aren't just saying they are going to bring in new jobs and industry, they are doing it.
I don't think you will see many people object except perhaps those who live near the plant and especially downwind of the plant.
This new plant is a good thing overall for Barnesville and Lamar county. For one thing it does NOT displace American jobs elsewhere in the USA, and it isn't going to send money overseas to a Communist nation.
There is also a way to get tricks in and out without impacting Barnesville, although 18/41 might have increased traffic. I suppose they looked at that?
If the IDA didn't give away the farm like they have done with other businesses, like the plastic molding company or the wood products company or the Chinese, then we are in pretty good shape. This would be a little different than other IDA history that people wind up bitching about.
I don't think anyone bitches about the IDA, just what they sometimes give away and the fact Hardwick is serving illegally. The law is the law.
If the story is balanced and complete (something hard to do when the reporter serves on the IDA) and if we really are going to collect some reasonable tax money then it sure sounds good to me!
This doesn't change the fact some people on the commission have to go. Remember the ag authority money. When Barnesville hands the county back the million bucks or so they stole and our sissy commissioners stop letting them get away with crap like that things will be different.
That should be trucks, not tricks. I was thinking of a cat house instead of a power house.
why do my taxes go up with all this good news they shit on the historic districk again they shoud pay 80k per A like the coutie charges it is in the city limits
Thank you Former Mayor Bell
New fire station. Barnesville Fire & Rescue Department. What do you think?
I'm going to withhold judgement until after someone other than Walter reports on all the facts.
One thing we should all keep in mind is only a small portion of the $266 million stays here. Most of it is spent outside the county.
What funds the county are mostly the taxes paid on equipment and other business property. We have no county payroll taxes.
The IDA has a history of exempting property taxes even long after the original terms run out.
So what do we have left when we read the deal? It appears we have $20,000 an acre property value that will be taxed. If they use 50 acres they will have the same property tax value as a single house on Thomaston Street.
Another positive is a few people in Lamar will get jobs. They will also buy some water from Barnesville, which is not helping fund the overall county.
In trade for this we are stuck with a facility that burns things to generate electricity. They can put any spin on it they like, but when anyone burns things in mass volume there is a change in the air.
I'm all for this kind of development if it doesn't change the environment and if it pays taxes, but if someone compromises the environment without contributing enough money to relieve taxes on residents we have to be very careful. We don't want to be duped into something that doesn't help us that we can't ever get rid of.
Remember, while the IDA has a history of bringing in business they do so by not taxing the business. It's a lot like the deals Lamar gets into with Barnesville, where Barnesville pretty much screws the county.
It will be interesting to read all the facts, not just what a member of the IDA like Walter wants us to think.
I hope all this proves to be true, but until it happens, until these things are up and running, I will reserve praise.
THIS SOUNDS WONDERFUL ..MY MAIN CONCERN IS THE POLLUTION ASPECT, I LIVE WITHIN A CROWS MILE OF THIS SITE..ONE THING I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE PUBLIC IS USUALLY NOT MADE AWARE OF THESE "DEALS" UNTIL IT IS A "DONE DEAL" !!!
Dane was the driving force in the deals
this too will go they way of the other industries that have tried to locate here once they see the sorry lazy bums in the work force they wiil have to choose from---just another empty building and faded dreams
http://www.cityviewmag.com/stories-the-greatest-hoax-ever-perpetrated_134.html
DEBUNKS GLOBAL WARMING WITH FACT AFTER FACT AFTER FACT.
Read up global warming Nazis!
Is this the same plant that was slated to be built in Franklin, GA in Heard County? What caused the change in location? The site was in the news in Feb 2008 with it being built in Heard. Does anyone know what and why that changed?
What about new hospital on MLK?
the hospitals name will be the dane bishop memorial hospital
Who in the hell is this Dane guy. Is he a real person, if so he must have some real issues for people to keep picking on him like yall do.
bunch of stupid DAN's thats the whole problem in a nut shell
It only Dane trying to agrivate the people posting comments. He likes to play with himself. I guess he is having fun at your expense. It takes a hell of a Dane to pat your own self in the middle of the back. Weird fellow!
It only Dane trying to agrivate the people posting comments. He likes to play with himself. I guess he is having fun at your expense. It takes a hell of a Dane to pat your own self in the middle of the back. Weird fellow!
3:11 how did you you know my name is Dan?...this blog is getting creepy.
Is this Dane guy queer
4:29 the real question is if your mother know's your queer? So does she?
I agree with the poster who asked why the IDA does this stuff in secret and then expects us to embrace it and accept it. I didn't elect the IDA, I don't want them controlling my environment or how tax money is distributed or collected. I don't even trust them.
After all one of the members was getting double tax benefits for homestead, and he and another have proclaimed they are smart enough to rewrite the laws any way they like.
I'm not against it or for it, but the citizens of Lamar county should have the right to decide what they want as a permanent polluter. Especially when that polluter enjoys tax breaks and other incentives.
We should all remember once something is here and has its foot in the door, it is here forever. Shouldn't the citizens decide what industries we want to start here?
Why not write a true unbiased story about the project, including details on the money we will actually get and what the changes in the environment will be?
6:16 is living proof that no matter what happens on this earth an idiot is always going to step forward to proved how big of an idiot he is. The reason they keep it a secret is so a dumbass like you doesn't blow the deal. They keep it a secret so some arm chair quarterback, and a fifth stringer at that, doesn't ruin something positive for everyone else that lives in the community. Get over it dude, tax breaks and incentives are how every county in America attracts businesses.
So 6:35 let's see if I understand this.
You are saying is an incinerator is a great project that will bring millions of dollars into the local economy.
You are saying 6:16 is a dumbass because he thinks the residents should control the development of the county.
Without using your foul mouth to insult people can you explain why residents shouldn't control the landscape of our county and what a giant incinerator project actually brings to our future?
How much will the incinerator reduce my taxes?
5%? 10%?
Where is the General Protekt plant? I'm curious about that since the broker in Atlanta for that project has a history of projects going bankrupt after getting funds. Look his name up.
He's a dumbass because he isn't heard from until the decision is already made. Waiting until the decision is already made to start stirring up a stink is counterproductive to everyone. If he was truly concerned he would be a part of the decision process. He could achieve the status of decision maker instead of arm chair qb by putting together a winning campaign for county commission or city council, getting involved in chamber of commerce, or the IDA. He uses the disquise as I'm not a good old boy but he would rather spend his nights like most people with their families and having fun instead of going to countless meetings. I am just sick and tired of listening to complainers, moaners, and bitchers. If he wants to be a part of the decision, well do what it takes to be a part of the decision...other than that stop your whining once the decision is already made. Save the world, vote Obama.
Oh yeah, and the answer to your final part of the question is this. Since I am to preoccupied with my own life, I vote someone into local offices who I think will make sure they don't bring in something hazardous to our community. If they betray that trust and bring in a 24 hour sky filling smoke machine, then vote them out next election. Remember, he's the only one who can save the world, vote Obama.
Oh yeah, and the answer to your final part of the question is this. Since I am to preoccupied with my own life, I vote someone into local offices who I think will make sure they don't bring in something hazardous to our community. If they betray that trust and bring in a 24 hour sky filling smoke machine, then vote them out next election. Remember, he's the only one who can save the world, vote Obama.
OK, so let me get this right.
He is a dumbass because like most people in the county he did not know what is happening in secret meetings.
He should not have been told what was happening because he might have objected to what five or six people think is good for all of us.
In order to not be a dumbass he has to join the IDA and attend the meetings so he can keep the meetings secret from other dumbasses that are not on the IDA.
Do have it right?
Now that that is straightened out and we know why he is a dumbass, what about the taxes and benefits?
How much money will adding a big incinerator add to the tax base? How much pollution will it add? How much will it lower our property taxes?
Now that we know what makes a person a dumbass, can you tell us how much money that thing will pump into the tax base?
You say if they screw up and this thing causes problem, then vote them out. I never voted for Walter Geiger and Gene harwick is on the IDA illegally.
How do we vote Walter off the IDA? How do we get Hardwick off since he is serving illegally?
If they allow this incinerator to be built and it causes a problem and we vote the IDA members we can all out, how do we get the incinerator out? Or are we just stuck with it forever?
When they run poop water through the cooling towers or cooling pond will it stink? If it stinks will they quit? Or are we stuck?
How much money do we actually get for this? If we own land near the incinerator will it go up in value?
Shouldn't we all know this stuff first?
At the risk of sticking my arm in a Hornet's nest, I agree with the other people in one respect. It would be nice for everyone to know all the pros and cons of things like this before the deal is done.
No disrespect intended to you Walter, but since you serve on the IDA you can hardly be an unbiased reporter.
At this point I don't know if this is a good idea or not. I live downwind of this thing. I'd like to know a lot more about it and from an unbiased source. You all might be the nicest guys in the world but I don't think anyone on the IDA is especially technical.
RESEARCH - RESEARCH - RESEARCH
Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I guess it depends on how close you live and where you get your water. I'd be willing to guess that there is more not said about it than the things the public is being told.
Better ask yourself - do my local government leaders really put my health and interest first?
http://www.birminghamfoe.org.uk/newslet/news0498/story11.htm
The burning of waste merely results in toxins being emitted into the air or ending up in the food chain via ash sent to landfill. Incinerators, and in particular the release of dioxins into the atmosphere, when plastics are burned, have been linked with many health risks including the following:
• cancer
• reduced sperm counts
• respiratory problems
• immune system damage
http://www.ejnet.org/rachel/rhwn162.htm
Throughout the 1980s, however, evidence accumulated, indicating that incinerators make the landfill problem worse, not better.
Incinerators do reduce the amount of material that must be landfilled. If you put 1000 pounds of raw garbage into a solid waste incinerator, you end up with somewhere between 250 and 400 pounds of ash; the other 600 to 750pounds has been released into the environment as gases and soot through the smoke stack.
Incinerators do reduce the need for landfill space, but unfortunately they also increase the hazards of the material going into the landfill and therefore actually make the groundwater pollution problem worse. As this fact becomes more widely understood, citizens are focusing their opposition on landfills that accept ash from incinerators, thus making the political problems of solid waste disposal as bad as, or worse than, they were before incineration was proposed.
http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Incinerator-Childhood-Cancers2000.htm
Childhood cancers, birthplaces, incinerators and landfill sites
This is not a household garbage and plastic incenerator as that info just posted discusses. This is for wood waste products only (or so it says.).
Gary,
The incinerator is not supposed to be for garbage, it is for biomass. That of course doesn't mean it will always be used exclusively for biomass.
Lamar County has a very poor history of making agreements that stick, and I certainly don't trust Barnesville to do what is good for the county. For example years ago the County let an auto repair business startup on 36 near the Interstate. They allowed it under the agreement it would never service big trucks or have big trucks on the property. Today it is a junkyard for big trucks, and big trucks are the primary business. If the City and County follow in the poor management footsteps of the past they won't put any real controls on the future of that plant and what they do. Once that plant is built it will be tough to limit what they do, just like that truck junkyard they started by agreeing to an auto service place.
My other concern is technical. I don't trust any of the people negotiating this deal to be technically astute or cautious. In my opinion none of them have a stellar track record in looking out for the County’s future. I wonder about things like the transportation method of the products to be burned, any lock on what materials can be burned, where the ash goes and how it is removed, if the gray water used will be in a closed system until cooled and returned, if additional power lines will be required and where they will run, and so on.
My bet is they didn’t ask many hard questions. On a positive note they are all good buddies with each other.
When I did consulting work for a large government agency that was critically responsible for lives, we always included people who were not of the same mold in think tanks. We avoided killing people that way. Yes men make poor planners.
Since this company supposedly will be burning wood waste, who will be monitoring to make sure they are not burning any pressure treated wood.
Due to the arsenic levels in this wood, it is against the law in all 50 states. ONE tablespoon of ash contains enough arsenic to kill a person!
Anyone downwind of this plant could be at a higher risk of cancer and other deadly diseases.
Should the people of Lamar County thank Jay or Dane for the businesses?
ive been waiting all my life for someone to build a giant incinarator down the road from me. praise the lord my dream is finally comming true. this is the first time i can say im really proud to be a barnesvillian.
A True public relations disaster
I think the city didn't want to talk to a local reporter last week about this project because they already knew it would be a public relations disaster.
Let's hope thats what it becomes for those reposnsible
Biomass refers to living and recently dead biological material that can be used as fuel or for industrial production. Most commonly, biomass refers to plant matter grown for use as biofuel, but it also includes plant or animal matter used for production of fibres, chemicals or heat. Biomass may also include biodegradable wastes that can be burnt as fuel. It excludes organic material which has been transformed by geological processes into substances such as coal or petroleum.
9:29AM it would be hard for me to believe that the incinerator will be used only for biomass. The site location alone disqualifies that statement in my opinion. I don't think a company would commit that much investment to burn biomass only. A litte lightbulb came on and ask where all this biomass will come from. Additionally, 10:44AM brought up a good question about treated lumber being burned.
I don't have the knowledge to know if this is a good or bad idea. We rely on people we elect to research and find answers but I believe they look at things like this as an economic plus for the county without considering any pitfalls or hazards. I discussed it with an engineer and was told that waste incinerators have improved over the last 10 years and don't present the hazards they once did but they still presented some hazards. This should be studied and the people of the county - esp those who will live within 3 miles of the site - should be made aware of the pros and cons.
Sounds like a Rock Quarry all over again. Just in a different backyard. Ya'll should have helped with the Rock Quarry fight. Do you expect the north end of the county to help now?
did we ask you to help. dont sound like anything but questions to me so why are you throwing rocks.
the county water dept wont have to start laying water lines to the parts of the county that doesnt have county water now.....there wont be enough water left, after this big plant buys all the water they are going to need.....the whole county will see the bad effects of this deal.....only the incumbent politicians will be helped....they will get massive donations to their re election bids.......it is just politics, people, not rocket science
Go ahead and fight this like you did the rock quarry. Look how far all that got you...no where because they are grading the land right now as we speak.
Gary,
I understand what you are saying.
Why on earth would they keep this all secret if it was on the up and up? If it is such a good deal, why wouldn’t they publish the details before making any kind of agreement?
Something smells already and the incinerator isn’t even built yet.
I think we should push to see what tax breaks they get, where the money comes from, and what assurance we have they won’t use this as a foot in the door to burn other things. I’d like to know exactly what they asked about in detail.
I would like to know what legally binding assurance we have they will always burn only the biomass outlined, and never burn anything else. I’d like to know about the traffic and ash disposal and about interconnections to the power grid. What assurance do we have this thing will never get bigger, or change to something else.
By the way, plants like this are called “green” because they are in the cycle of carbon already in the environment. They don’t unlock stored carbon, and they release less methane than if the same biomass decomposed slowly in a landfill. The tradeoff to that, and everything has a tradeoff, is everything is released at once in one location. While the net output of destructive byproducts is less, what is released occurs all at one time in one location.
It isn’t like everyone in the world is clamoring for an incinerator and we have to secretly sneak it away from them.
Tom why are you seeking Gary out as some type of know it all. He made up all types of allegations and claims against everyone in the city and county government, took these claims to the highest authorities in Ga and came up with nothing. So he is nothing more than a blow hard.
Gary, you are a f****** idiot
Dear Mr. Hidden,
I'm not connected with anyone but myself. I say what I say. Gary says what he says.
Let me answer any doubts with something you can look up yourself.
Here’s a news story the wonderful members of the IDA never read, or kept hidden, about the Cadillac plant the proposed local plant will be modeled on:
http://www.mlui.org/landwater/fullarticle.asp?fileid=3502
Read it and weep.
After the plant was up and running
600 residents of Cadillac Michigan had to show up at a meeting to stop this wonderful new "green company" the IDA brought to us from burning old tires.
Would you like to hear more about the plant? There is a good deal more that is interesting.
I hope the members of the IDA were very careful in what they committed our community to.
Would you like me to post what the EPD in Michigan says about the "green plant" you want to bring to our community?
If so, let me know.
You guys really have to break up your little yes-man club and get some different people with objective views to balance out what you do. Get some legal people on the IDA or someone with a science or engineering background. Otherwise you will ruin this community.
You can't be too careful with what you drag into our community!!
The Herald Gazette reported Rollcast Energy, Inc. will locate a $160 million green power plant here that will provide nearly 50 megawatts of electricity, 22-25 jobs and a payroll of $1.2 to $1.5 million. Let’s look at that:
22 jobs at 1.5 million is 68,182 dollars a year average wage.
25 jobs at 1.2 million dollars is 48,000 dollars a year average wage.
Does that sound realistic for local help?
http://www.deltapower.com/projects/michigan/cadillac_energy.html
says the plant shown in the Herald-Gazette is a 38MW (megawatt) power plant. The one proposed here is claimed to be 50MW. The local plant will be 130% of the Cadillac plant in the Herald-Gazette.
The latest EPA permit for Cadillac is at:
http://www.deq.state.mi.us/aps/downloads/ROP/pub_ntce/N1395/N1395%20Staff%20Report%205-06-08.PDF
Read it carefully, especially the reason it is required. The permit is required because plants like this are considered major polluters.
It shows the plant releases:
TOTAL STATIONARY SOURCE EMISSIONS
Pollutant Tons per Year
Carbon Monoxide (CO) 358
Lead (Pb) 0.01
Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) 245
Particulate Matter (PM10) 46
Sulfur Dioxide (SO2) 1
Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) 4
358 tons of carbon monoxide, 20 pounds of lead, 245 tons of Nitrogen Oxides, 46 tons of particulates, a ton of sulfur dioxide, and 4 tons of volatile organic compounds per year are released into the air at 38 MW of advertised power.
If we scale this linearly to the 50MW the paper claims we will have, that’s 465 tons of CO, 26 pounds of lead, 319 tons of NOx, 60 tons of particulates, 1.3 tons of SO2, and 5.2 tons of volatile organic compounds.
I suggest we name the smokestack after the members of the IDA, and bill them for the time we will spend watching this plant to be sure they never burn tires.
OK IDA members, to keep the rest of us from having to listen to Tom Rauch, will you please consult him before making any decision whatsoever in the future. Thank you.
Mr. Secret,
I assume you don't think dragging a power plant that could burn tires or release 1000 tons of stuff into the air every year is a matter for the public to know about in advance or have a voice in.
I also assume you don't mind the smell of most of 700,000 gallons of gray water (ever smell that stuff) that will be evaporated every day from that plant's cooling system.
I'm of a different opinion. I don't think a few buddies on the IDA should stick a major smokestack source in our community through secret negotiations.
I'm of the opinion they should have presented this to the community first.
Do you actually think most people don't care?
I know you guys love looking at the negative but one thing that even you must acknowledge is the fact that several of the decision makers are raising their kids relatively close to where this project is being built. If they really thought this was going to have a negative impact on their kids, these people would without question pass on it. I am positive in making their decision they thought about their kids and family who are breathing the same air as everyone else. There are pros and cons to every issue but just give these people the benefit of the doubt that these leaders love their families as much as you love yours and would make decisions accordingly.
its illegal for george butler to be on the IDA he lives elsewhere,,, its a conflict of interst for the news paper editor to be on the board,,he should be booted immediatley
WDM,
Bringing up the judgement or honesty of people on the IDA is a very poor way to sway anyone. The concern should be the plant and how the deal was done, and not the personal lives of the members themselves.
Even if what you said was true and there were IDA members raising children near the proposed plant, it wouldn't prove anything about the plant itself. The debate would only shift to personal discussions, and not focus on the incinerator and why the community should not have known about it.
Pollution from plants like this is a major concern.
For example the Times-Herald has an article reporting the Heard County plant proposed by Rollcast "has also amended its permit application with the Air Protection Branch of Georgia Environmental Protection Division to address EPD's concerns over the facility's high level of air toxins."
It is good common sense that when any authority is going to drag a polluter into a clean environment like Lamar County, citizens should know about it up front.
If a majority of residents feel the change is worth it, then the IDA should go ahead.
I don't know about your feelings WDM, but my feeling is the USA should get back to being a democracy. I just don't feel good about a handful of people, half of whom weren't elected and one of whom is on the IDA illegally through altering of public records, making choices about my air for me.
there are two ida members illegal tom not one.
Anonymous @ 8:28 PM and 8:37 PM. Thanks for your wonderful analysis of me. I prefer to be a blow hard or as you say "a f****** idiot" over a coward hiding behind the name anonymous. Please, you name one "made up allegation" that I made. Not all types - just one.
I’m sure you must be relating to the Ag Authority. It wouldn’t surprise me to know that you are in some way connected with the deed. Perhaps you are an Ag Authority member, or maybe a commissioner or city council member, or even a BOE member.
It is cowards that allowed our county to be robbed of our assets and would prefer to sling mud from a distance rather than get involved. But I guess that is water over the dam now.
Tom is making some very good comments. Everyone should be concerned about what a few people allow to happen in our county. I can only believe that only a real idiot would have zero concerns. The real problems are people that allow government to do as they want without questioning anything they do because they are scared to get involved. It's kind of like making comments under anonymous.
Of course, people like you are entitled to your opinion. I respect yours regardless of the displayed level of education which it is given.
Signed,
Blow Hard
wdm - I can't see where we are looking for negatives. I see the environmental impact from the plant being questioned. I see the future health of Lamar County residents being questioned. Will this be a wolf in sheep’s clothing? Many people complain about cigarette smoke and remain quite about something potentially much more devastating. Right now is the time to ask the hard questions. It’s much easier to prevent a mess than to try and clean it up afterwards.
Your negativity tries to paint a picture of these people making uneducated decisions. The people on the IDA are pretty astute people. They have and raise their families in this area and I am quiet positive there were some serious inquiries and research on the environmental impact it would have. You two act like you are the only people smart enough to questions the environmental concerns. Well, boys, all your questions were already asked and answered, you just weren't present at the meetings.
hey boys wdm says your questions were already asked and answered. he must have been at the secret meetings and have read all the secret papers. if he was not at meetings then he must be a chronic liar or maybe he is peter banks little lap dog.
CHECK THIS SIT OUT http://www.freewebs.com/hartwigdocuments/index.htm
yall might as well shut up.....the deal has been made and there is nothing you can do about it.....people spend money to get power.....they might as well reap the rewards......you cant do anything about it....and if you boot them out, they will be replaced by the same......once someone get power, they get hungrey for more, and the common people get screwed.......people in power dont have problems and therefore dont see our problems.....their lives become easy and everything works out well for them
wdm,
I believe a combination of three things has happened:
1.) The people on the IDA were duped into thinking this plant produced no pollution. "Green power" is really a buzz word that indicate the plant does not bring trapped carbon from oil or coal into the environment. It does not mean the plant does not release emissions.
2.) The people on the IDA think the rest of the community is too stupid to participate in a rational discussion and make a logical decision about locating a power plant here, so they made the choice for us.
3.) The IDA members feel important when they toss around big meaningless numbers. For example they say the "land will be returned to the tax rolls at a valuation of not less than $20,000 an acre" or $160 million investment.
Look at the land. If the plant uses 30 acres and if it is really in the tax rolls right away at that value, we have added $600K to the property values. That times a millage rate of around 30 mills means they added $18,000 to our tax digest. That's about like ten houses with homestead exemptions, which Mayor Banks now knows only can be used on one house at a time.
Factually most of the money will be spent other places, not here.
My son in Ohio might get some of the money because he is an engineer at a company that makes boiler controls for power plants. My nephew in Atlanta could get a large chunk because he sells power plant equipment including generators and turbines.
The 160 million will actually be spread all over the world, with some even landing in the USA.
Even Lamar will get a tiny slice of that 160 million for things they buy here. Unfortunately they won't buy the expensive stuff here.
If things worked the way they should, the equipment would be taxed. Then the 160 million investment would significantly increase tax revenues. But the IDA doesn't work that way. The IDA exempts them from tax for years and years, until the equipment depreciates down to a value where not much tax is paid.
If the IDA really wanted to be direct and honest, they would release the agreement so we all could see exactly how much revenue we get out of those huge impressive headline numbers. We could see if the income from having the plant outweighs the cost of lowering our air quality and increasing truck traffic that hammers our roadways.
My bet is they want to spin this thing into impressive looking numbers because they think the community is too dumb to ask questions. I'd like to know the real numbers we get in trade for the burden of a power plant that is powered by an incinerator, and what gurantee we have that they won't apply for permits to burn other things later.
Really, they are not just talking --they are doing it????????? Like the Chinese Factory that was going to bring lots of jobs and revenue to the County ----- Huh? (2years)
It really amazes me how "elected" officials want to step up to the plate and make it look like they are doing their job when it is time to be re-elected. Way to go! I believe you ----NOT!
Tom, you are pot stirrer, plain and simple. Maybe you haven't noticed but everything you comment on is some big cover-up or a conspiracy theory. Get over it...they aren't trying to spin anything into anything. Either we use oil, natural gas, or plutonium to fire reactors or we can try this new way of using wood waste products. Quit putting down the people who are actually out doing something to make our county a better place. If you are so much smarter than everyone else as you try to make yourself appear, run for election or put your name in for a board appointment.
wdm,
You and I are different.
I think the people should have reasonable control over the government and be informed of what is going on.
You act like a few special people are entitled to make decisions for everyone else, even if what they do is illegal.
I think open records laws are open records laws.
You seem to think whatever they do in secret is OK, even if it breaks the law.
That's the difference between us. I'm not willing to change over to your viewpoint just to be popular.
Tom,
Why beat a dead horse? It is obvious that some people don't have the mental capacity to recognize questions of concern over stirring the pot. You should have applied for your permit to voice an opinion from the wdm office of higher intelligence. Congratulations on your appointment to pot stirrer. If you continue with your efforts, you may be eligible to join me at the “blow hard” or “f****** idiot” level very soon. However, I’ll probably get another promotion after the release of this comment.
I am always amazed when people try to question wrong or improper actions or voice their concerns about a subject only to be tagged with another name for doing it. It is obvious that Mr. WDM is the self appointed local government liaison crisis manager for all actions taking place in the county, right or wrong, good or bad, legal or illegal. Some people just don’t understand that communication is a two way process requiring a sender and a receiver. I can only assume that your efforts to engage in effective communication are futile at best when attempting to reach some people.
I apologize to you Tom if you receive and interpret the efforts of this dialog as inappropriate. I am exhausted from burying that dead horse. It was a big horse. Regardless, I’m equally sure at least one scavenger will come along to dig it back up.
get out the shovels boys, that horse aint deep enough!
headlines read wdm gets TKOed at a horse funeral
i think you are missing the most important. should the new building be called the home of dane bishop
What's illegal? Your interpretation of the law? gmc you had your day in court and it said you were wrong with all your allegations. You should apologize to those people who you so eloquently defamed during your last tirade. What happened to all that money everyone was donating to fund your last legal battle versus Lamar County? Did you get to keep it?
Wal-Mart or Target ???
Are you really that stupid or do you have to work at it? Your comment deserves no reply. You have just demonstrated you complete ignorance in that case. It is my whole hearted opinion that if brains were gunpowder you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.
Once again you can only jack your jaws about something totally alien to you. I'll tell you what. You prove that I was wrong in the Ag Authority challenge and I'll publish an apology in the newspaper.
Point wdm
http://ap.augustachronicle.com/pstories/state/ga/20080616/291524301.shtml
Officials say $160 million power plant slated for Georgia
The Associated Press
BARNESVILLE, Ga. — Officials in Lamar County {WHO) say a $160 million plant will produce electricity from biomass and create up to 25 jobs and a payroll of up to $1.5 million.
The officials (WHO) said Monday that Rollcast Energy Inc. has chosen to locate the plant on about 60,000 square feet in the middle Georgia county, in a forested area that will produce a buffer, The Herald-Gazette of Barnesville reported. (WHO INFORMED THE GAZETTE)
The plant will burn wood waste from logging, land-clearing operations and other sources (WHAT OTHER SOURCES) to heat a boiler and create steam to produce almost 50 megawatts of electricity — enough for 40,000 homes — to be sold to a utility company (GA POWER).
The plant, known as Piedmont Renewable Power, will use 700,000 gallons a day of gray water from Barnesville's sewage treatment plant for cooling purposes. (WHAT A AROMA IT WILL BE) (THEN WHERE DOES THE WATER GO)
i would like to know how much tax money we are really going to get from all this. i dont like the fact sewage water is going to be evaporated. wont that stink.
www.jasonpye.com
then search towaliga
SOME INTERESTING STUFF.
A friend of mine called me from Griffin to tell me about this. Cops making firearms available to convicted felons. I thought that was illegal.
gmc just remember the reason you will never win is because good always prevails over evil.
Tom and gmc made some good points. We should be better informed by the people making the decisions that affect us. All we know is what we are told. We ought to make a comettee to find out all the truths. This should be talked about at one of the concerned citizens meetings and Tom and gmc should come. I want my kids to grow up in a safe place.
wmd said good always prevails over evil........he has a short memory......bush beat gore.....in american, it doesnt matter who gets the most votes....
You are right about it doesn't matter who gets the most votes. Remember Maddox vs Calloway? Ye without sin cast the first stone.
8:56
You are right about the votes, ask Hillary!
WDM,
You are wrong.
Jack Harris and I talked to two different lawyers about the Ag Authority money. The County Commissioners shirked their responsibilities when they did not force the City and the Ag Authority members to do things legally and properly.
The only thing a lawsuit could have been would be a lawsuit to force commissioners to follow the law and do their duty to the citizens of Lamar County. The County Commission would have had to replace their long time friends and family on the Ag Authority so the Authority could undo the illegal or irresponsible transaction with the City, or they would have had to sue the City to undo everything.
Gary’s mistake was not asking what this lawsuit would cost up front. It could have cost as much as $20K or more to force the Commission to do their elected duties. Then it would cost the taxpayers to sue the City, and the Lamar Schools and Gordon or whoever else was involved in the crooked transaction if indeed it could be forced to be undone.
Sometimes when a Governing body is incompetent it becomes too expensive to force them to act responsibly.
Let me give you another example. Someone I know claims to have overheard Patty and Gene Hardwick in a room altering the code book so Hardwick could serve on the IDA. I wasn’t sure if that was true.
When I looked at the code book, it changed. The original wording of the code book changed. As a matter of fact if you go to the Library and get the County Code, the sentence that prohibits Hardwick from being on the IDA is in that book. It only disappeared from the book in the County Offices. Now I can’t say what that person said was accurate, and that Patty and Gene actually changed the code book as claimed. I can tell you an earlier picture I have of the code book now disagrees with the present book, and the copy in the library disagrees with the code book that was in the Courthouse.
Maybe the code book fairy landed in the courthouse and changed the words. I have no idea.
This type of thing, along with the Ag Authority fiasco, makes me have a low level of confidence in the honesty and integrity of these Authorities and the candidness and openness and truthfulness we can expect from them. Especially when we look at past members and how they turned out for our community.
I’ll wager anyone here $100 that the IDA is giving the polluting “Green” power plant a considerable break on taxes and they also didn’t have the foresight to limit what they can burn to wood in the future. I wouldn’t expect a group of people who disregard the feelings of the people they represent to suddenly change overnight.
Why we give an unelected Authority the power to control our money or lives, especially with a commission that doesn’t monitor their friends, is beyond me. Someone has to watch these people if the commissioners won’t. I guess it won’t be people like you WDM, so we will just have to accept Gary’s help. I feel much better with Gary watching them than I do with someone shaking a totally empty head “yes”.
if harwick is on the ida illegally isnt anything he signs illegal.
Kent K says....
Tom Rauch I don't believe we have ever met, if we have please forgive me. You are correct about the Commission Chairman was according to code who was supposed to on the IDA. That was why I served on the IDA during my four years in office. Was it leagally changed after I left office I don't have a clue. I can only say the Chairman during my time was the representative on the IDA, in code.
The simple answer is to have the county office show you the minutes of the meeting where it was changed.
Walter, might be good investagative reporting for you. What do you think?
We all should take our local politicians and our local election much more seriously. In addition to their primary duties, those that we elect should be responsible for their appointed authority members and the actions of the authority. Right now it is full of crooked deals, buddy helping buddy, show me the money, and borrowing a similar phrase, asking NOT what the county can do for me but how much can I take from the county. Power corrupts, but total power corrupts totally. The state won’t get involved in local government so it’s up to the people to oversee local government’s actions. We as a people have done a poor job overseeing or either we don’t care.
It’s easy to stand up in front of people and say I’m honest and I have lots of integrity only to have a hidden agenda the people never see. It’s another thing all together to prove the honesty and integrity. Once you prove it you earn the people’s respect, which is all together different from the respect toward the office held. If people we elect only have the respect that goes with occupying the office, they need to be replaced with people that want to EARN the respect from the people that elect them.
Kent,
We met briefly.
Thank you for backing me up. The law says two things:
1.) The Commission Chairman shall serve on the IDA.
2.) People holding other offices shall not serve.
After you left office Burnette decided to let Hardwick serve for him even though it was illegal. When a few people started raising caine about it, the code books were altered. I think revision 16was the last book that included the legal text, and then revision 17 was altered.
This was done without a hearing so there is no record of the change. It was done right before Patty left employment.
Anyone with common realizes the position this puts us in. Our elected officials are allowing people to falsify documents.
This creates two problems:
1.) If we can't trust a person to do small things legally, like change the code legally through hearings so he can sit on an Authority, we probably cannot trust that person on larger issues.
2.) When a person we elect asks a county employee to alter legal documents it teaches the employee that the law or honesty does not really matter.
When we look back at the history of the county, these two things explain a great deal.
The IDA has had a history of allowing dishonest people on the Authority. For example one of the past IDA members offered to buy land from me with cash and falsify records so we could avoid paying taxes.
This is why I don't trust a thing they say about the new incinerator they are bringing into our community.
If the IDA doesn't have the common sense to ensure members have good moral and ethical backgrounds, they they probably don't have enough collective common sense to make good deals for our county.
got news for ya. this is 1 of 2 planned incinerators. this one is gona boil the stinky water with wood and old tires and the other one is gona burn the garbage at the dump. we going to be one of the major contributors of air pollution in georgia while we try to poison our water at the same time. free healthcare lamar gona need it.
we need a dump for local waste besides my neighbors back yard that is full of old cars and trucks that are full of rats and trash. when his trucks fill up with trash faster than he tears up the one he is drivin now he will have to use a dirt road and the county will have to haul it to a dump. i dont think we need to ask other people to bring us trash or old wood so someone can burn it to make money lessen they leave all the money here for me.
Gary go get a life and while you’re at it find one for Tom and Kent also. All you do is bitch. If you spent half as much time helping the community as you do writing novels on this blog you would probably be citizen of the year. Join a local club, volunteer at the nursing home. People might take you serious if you actually did something with your time verses sitting in front of your computer complaining about everything.
The "Project Brown" Memorandum of Understanding released by the IDA says:
1.) There can be up to 15 years of tax abatements on land, buildings, and equipment at the site. (Warning: The IDA also has a history of expanding tax abatements.)
2.) The City of Barnesville will sell water to them as well as waste water. They will pay for the 20k to 50k gallons of potable water a day at a rate of $2.33 per thousand gallons, so Barnesville will get to sell water worth 47 to 116 dollars a day to the site. That rate might vary if the rate to other industrial users changes.
3.) There is NO agreement to limit what they burn. Everyone agreed the initial air permit applied for by the developer will be to burn only non-fossel fuels and no tires.
4.) There is a clause that the developer can change the use of the site from a biomass (which already includes more than wood) fueled power facility to something else so long as they ask in writing. The IDA agreed to not be "unreasonable" in its reaction or response to any requested change.
There is nothing in the understanding that locks this plant into just burning wood, the size of the plant, or the amount of pollution other than what the EPD allows.
Now the plus side is Lamar could get a few hundred thousand dollars or more of tax from the incinerator in a few years, and we will get around 20 jobs. Tax wise it is like adding 200 fairly nice houses to the tax digest. That's pretty good if the IDA doesn't expand the breaks or write some unusual bond.
The tradeoff is we have invited an air polluter into our county without any real agreement they will never be worse then they are when they arrived. We have opened a door.
hey old blue. tell me where they are wrong. what did they say that is wrong. dont shoot the messengers cause you dont like the message. maybe you one of the good ole boyz and are pissed becase you cant get your way as easy as you used to do.
Kent K....
Blue-
I am not complaining about anything. I am simply trying to share what I know on one particular subject that seems to be of public interest. It is a shame you can't discern the difference. Sorry, have to go and work.
kent dont worry about them. they signed an agreement that they would hide as much information about the plant as they can legally hide and that they would side with the plant instead of the citizens. i just read it now. it is in the agreement.
i want to know why they have to sign an agreeement they will hide things as much as legally possible and sign an agreement they will defend the plant and talk to the plant defore releasing any information. that makes it sound like they are planning on misleading us as much as possible.
ward four catches hell, lynn wilson is useless to the people of ward four. first a secrest release prison built in the woods no public hearing now a burn pitt no pulic hearing..ward four needs a new guy
stop complaining. the good old boys are working hard for you. you are just to stupid to know what is good for you. shut up and let someone who is smarter then you tell you what you should think. thats why we are blessed to have the good ole boys to take care of us and watch out for us.
Blue,
I can only assume that you are one of the notorious individuals hiding behind an alias who blind sides the citizens far too often. I can understand. Nobody likes attention when anything is planned that might not be on the up and up and needs to stay hidden from the public. Therefore maybe you should get a life and include all your little cronies. Stop the deceit, the behind doors negotiations, and the omission of county resident concerns. Build a trust within the county and we won’t watch so hard. Until then, get used to being watched.
notice they got nothing positive to say about the burn pit they want. the only thing they can do is attack the people that are smart enough to know its a half assed idea.
They did not have a lot of anything negative to say either. So many of you can not read. All I could see was questions being asked about the pros and cons along with questioning the IDA and the commissioners present actions based on the past performance. I think most of you see dollars signs, jobs, and reduced taxes and refuse to look at what expense. That my friends is a sign of real stupidy based on all the critizing going on. I don't have to get hit in the head with a hammer to know all the attacks on Tom, Gary, and Kent are coming from people trying to justify what they already did behind everyones back. You need to understand that everything that happens in our area affects us all to some degree and that everything needs a sanity check. I am happy we have people willing to take a bashing to voice questions. Just because some serve in elected or appointed jobs don't make them right. If I use your thoughts about these same things and applied them to politics today then G. Bush is the smartest man in the world. A word to wdm. Gary never had a day in court. He tried to do something for all of us and only a few people tried to help. We can only blame us for losing what we lost but we can do our part to make up for it when we go to the polls and vote next time.
You should all hear what I heard from residents around the wood burning plant in Michigan!!!!!
Is anyone here interested in getting a group together someplace to discuss this power plant and the IDA? If so we better do it fast.
I called residents in Cadillac also. I received positive comments. Some noise from a dozer but minor was what I was told. There were some "close by" residents who put up a fuss for a while but there was no real issue for them other than some noise from equipment that was described to me as a faint sound if you knew what you were trying to listen for. The real complaints were when a tire burning permit was applied for. It was not permitted. No smell, smoke or loud noise. I was told by this random resident that you would not even know it was there unless you were told it was there.
Call information in Cadillac MI. give a random name get their number, call and ask about the energy plant. It took me a few tries to get someone. Two different people did not know what I was talking about. They had been there for 3 & 5 years. The one that I did speak with had been there over 25 years and had no issues with it. He said they were a good business for the town.
I trust Walter on this since he has a large real estate investment near the site this is going to locate. I dont think he would hurt the value of it by supporting a hazardous industry by it.
IS NOT THIS THE SAME THING THE SOLID WASTE AUTHORITY APPROVED TO HAVE AT THE LANDFILL TO BURN WASTE AND GENERATE ENERGY. YOU PEOPLE DID NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT. WHY? I THINK IT IS BECAUSE YOU HATE THE IDA & CITY OF BVILLE. YOU WOULD BITCH IF "MICRO-SOFT TYPE" COMPANY CAME HERE BY WAY OF THE IDA & CITY.
Walter G now back and editing comments. Freedom of speech is gone again, and the IDA members are home and ready to spin things.
Tom,
The concerned citizens meeting was mentioned. That would be a good place to start. I would like to know what info you gathered. We could get Missy and other IDA members to come also and defend their actions so they can't say that they didn't have the opportunity to comment. Additionally, maybe the anonymous who was afraid to identify themself could come and share their findings. I would also be interested if the site is being located on an IDA members property. We would need to ckeck the records for any type of conflict of interest.
10:15 PM - NO THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING. IF YOU ARE GOING TO DEFEND IT AT LEAST GET A CLUE OF WHAT YOU ARE DEFENDING.
I am not 10:15 but I do agree that it is the same thing if not a bit more concerning since the landfill will burn anything that is dumped at the landfill and not just wood waste. Please educate us Tom on how the landfill's burner is different of better than what is being proposed now.
I am not being ugly towards you. I simply don't know the difference and you indicate you do.
I have all my facts and I can prove what I say.
I don't have to trust anyone on blind faith with some silly reason like "Walter owns land so I trust him" or the "I talked to people up there and they like it".
If anyone is interested in the whole true story, I can supply it without spin. We are being lied to.
They are going to bring this thing in here and there is no protection at all in what they burn in the future. If this one month old Delaware Corporation decides they want a tax-free ride, the IDA has agreed to do it.
The plant owners have seduced the Mayor of Barnesville and the IDA into allowing a permanent polluter into our air. The IDA, of which Walter is a member, has signed on to filter any information to the maximum extent the law allows.
The trade we get for this is if the company asks the IDA, the IDA will do everything it can to secure bonds. The IDA will won everything. The IDA is tax exempt.
When the equipment is new and has maximum value, they will pay no tax. As the equipment gets older and has less value, they might start to pay tax.
What this really amounts to is the IDA has allowed a major polluter into our county that we will never get rid of. There is no lock against burning other things.
This is why happens when a handful of friends starts making decisions for the rest of the people. They cover each others tracks and make sure the rest of us never get all the facts.
That should be the IDA will OWN everything, not won. It's late.
Is it just me or does anyone else notice that it is always the same few folks complaining about everything that goes on in Lamar county. If I was so upset the way things are I would move far away from here. (hint-hint)
I wont call any names on here but I am sure some certain one or two people will make thier usual statements to the commissioners and council how bad this is and how it is going to destroy Lamar County and the sky will fall and the sun will turn blue and the air will dry up and the water will turn purple and the farts will smell good (just made that up) and life is going to suck.
What should we do?
In 100 years or really much less for many of us this all wont make a shit. So get over it, laugh a little, go fishing, have a beer turn up the radio and sing out loud like you think you can sing and enjoy the ride 'cause we all just passing through!
GO DAWGS!
Tom, since you know so much about this topic please educate us on the difference of this and the one the solid waste authority is proposing. Or is there a difference?
And i understand about the spelling. no need to go back and explain. we knew what you meant. own not won.
tom is doing his level best to give you some facts but most of you just don't give a rats ass and look for fault in everything he says. its easy to see where the real stupid is and its not with tom. either its stupid people in the county or ida or lcl gov running blocker. which is it. i dont think the people are so stupid as to not want the truth so it has to be blockers.
Research yourself - google biomas incinerator and solid waste incinerator. Tons of info available such as the below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incineration#The_argument_against_incineration
The highly toxic fly ash must be safely disposed of. This usually involves additional waste miles and the need for specialist toxic waste landfill elsewhere, sometimes with concerns for local residents.
Incinerators emit varying levels of heavy metals such as vanadium, manganese, chromium, nickel, arsenic, mercury, lead, and cadmium, which can be toxic at very minute levels.
Incinerators produce fine particles and ultra fine particles in the furnace. Even with modern particle filtering of the flue gases, approximately 1/500 of these (by mass) are emitted to the atmosphere. Most of the filtration in baghouse filters occur in the filter cake formed on the surface, and not in the bag material itself.
Several European doctors associations (including cross discipline experts such as physicans, environmental chemists and toxicologists) in June 2008 representing over 33,000 doctors wrote a keynote statement directly to the European Parliament citing widespread concerns on incinerator particle emissions and the absence of specific fine and ultrafine particle size monitoring or in depth industry/ government epidemilogical studies of these minute and invisible incinerator particle size emissions.
Studies in Andover, Massachusetts strongly correlated 10 % property devaluations with close incinerator proximity
http://www.energyjustice.net/biomass/
The typical incineration plant for municipal solid waste is a moving grate incinerator. ... Dioxins and furans are considered by many to be serious health hazards
http://www.earthactionindex.org/problem.asp?ItemID=192
Recently there has been controversy over the difference between a biomass electrical generation facility and a waste-to-energy incinerator. Biomass is generally understood to be solid fuel derived from plant material. However, if the definition of biomass is broad enough to include municipal waste, this raises health concerns, since municipal waste is not considered a clean source.
I don't know a thing about the system at the landfill. I never even heard about it until tonight when I read something here on the blog.
We really need a citizens group that pulls together everything happening in the county.
I'd be happy to work with anyone else interested on things that have a long term effect on the community that can't be undone.
People need to think long and hard about this. Once someone spends 160 million, and the Memorandum includes a clause saying the IDA will do everything it can to secure the bond and own the assets, no one is going to let that plant shut down over emissions or smells or fuel types.
It isn't like we will be able to move another business into that plant if we get stuck with it. It will always be something that burns things for money.
Also, make no mistake about it, if the IDA owns that plant and leases it back to the company as the Memorandum states, what the IDA owns is tax exempt.
If you think the IDA is doing us a great service, go check on the tax money we get from the plastics plant and other major IDA projects.
They have bitten off a bit more than they should have with this thing. It is a system that converts things brought in by truck to heat. That heat is used to generate electricity that they sell.
The volume of things coming in to feed the plant depends on the amount of energy in what they bring in and the power they want to produce. A steady output of 50 million watts would require a large volume of wood, because wood doesn't have very high energy content.
We will have substantial costs with this thing. We will have low-end trucking (because transportation is a major cost in the fuel they use) hauling thousands of loads of wood into that plant. Besides the traffic we see and the diesel fumes, this will hammer our roads.
The plant will easily release several hundred tons of junk into our air, besides what the trucks and equipment used to turn the wood piles might produce.
Depending on where the wood comes from, they easily could drag insects and other things into this area. Remember this is all old junk wood or whatever else they might have to burn.
All of this can be looked at in advance, but my bet is the IDA just took their word everything will be fine.
If the plant here is anything like the plant in Michigan, we are heading for problems.
The spin or damage control will be that I'm the problem and I expect to be targeted in a negative way, but the facts will show otherwise. The facts will show these guys are playing us all for suckers.
tom you need to join barnesville.ning.com site and post the facts of the factory so we wont get this confusing watered down version that this media source is feeding us.
I think 10:15 has hit on a key point. How many of you who are so critical have actually called the IDA to get the details and facts about this company? Have you shown common courtesy in allowing the people who are working for the county the chance to answer questions, or is that option only open to people from Michigan? Maybe a better question is whether or not there is anything the IDA can say or do that you might agree with. If not, then why waste their time and yours?
Responding to the comment about "not liking it here and just move as far away......" If those of us who pay attention and really care move far, far away, that will leave those few of you who think you run this County (or want to run this County)to continue pissing in our face and telling us its raining! So you go Tom!!!!
like i said very early in this blog.......it doesnt matter what all of yall say about this.....you are just wasting you time....this is already a done deal.....it gonna happen.......you might as well get back to national politics and crime.....you aint gonna change the ida decision......people are already making plans as to how to spend the money
Mr. Unknown said at 8:40 AM:
"How many of you who are so critical have actually called the IDA to get the details and facts about this company?"
What type of "details and facts" do you expect we will get from the IDA knowing they signed an agreement that anything they say will be restricted and hidden to the maximum extent the law permits, and anything they release will be mutually cleared with the company?
"Have you shown common courtesy in allowing the people who are working for the county the chance to answer questions, or is that option only open to people from Michigan?"
Anyone experienced in almost any area of life understands the best way to avoid future a problem is to learn from other's mistakes. This is why the plant from Michigan the IDA toured is a good model.
"Maybe a better question is whether or not there is anything the IDA can say or do that you might agree with. If not, then why waste their time and yours?"
I'm interested in the un-spun truth. If the facts show this is good for the community or if the majority of people think this is a good idea I will fully support it.
We need to know the truth, and sometimes that is hard to get from a small group of people who try to run things. Especially when they sign an agreement to give us one side of the story.
Tom is simply frustrated because he wants so badly to be someone...so he bitches and moans and complains. Bet he has never served in a volunteer capacity for anything in this town.
Tom sounds like he won't take your crap.
Tom betta sit down somewhere,cause he'll get his old butt flipped.
Let me set your mind at ease. We don't scare. All of you are going to have to come clean with this one. Forget the "spirit of the law", you better be withing the letter of the law. And if violations are made and the IDA owns it , they also own the responsibility of the fines.
Tom said "We really need a citizens group that pulls together everything happening in the county".
What do you have in mind?
9:28 with attitudes like that it's no wonder they been getting over on people for so long. just roll over and play dead is a poor way of thinking.
Tom is a sexual intellectual, or a f'ing know it all.
I would like to buy Tom for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he is worth. Man, I could move to the Bahamas and live in peace and tranquility forever.
tom it looks like you have some jeilous followers.
3:42 why don't you just move to ba and we will send you the ham for your mas.
I don't believe all the global warming bunk but I sure do hate the US going over to Saudi begging for more oil. And they get sucha kick out of seeing us squirm! WE REALLY NEED TO GET OFF OF FOREIGN OIL!!!
They feed us one lie after another and what have we done about it? We have been sitting there and letting them and paying what they ask because they know we HAVE NO OPTIONS!!
This is up to the individual.
To anonymous @ 5:46 PM,
About the high cost of oil.
This is outstanding. Everyone should watch it. I think you will enjoy it. Check out this link.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=UOpcPfAarjY
Walter had it posted at one time I think but I couldn't find it again. Anyway, I enjoyed it so much that I kept a copy.
I expect a few people to make this personal. That doesn't bother me in the least.
That really just shows there isn't a logical or reasonable answer to the points that were presented here.
1.) The IDA, despite what they might say, signed an agreement that allows the company to move in here tax free for the first year if they want the tax breaks. After that, depending on the abatement agreement, taxes as a percentage of tax value will increase slowly while the tax value itself decreases. When the tax rate is maximum most of the equipment will have little or no value.
2.) The IDA, despite what they might claim, has nothing in the agreement that controls what that plant can burn in the future. They can even change it before they start.
I guess we just have to trust a Delaware Corporation that was formed one month ago to do the right thing.
When are they going to start hiring? I need a job!
error message when posting facts.
First we need to gather the facts and confront the IDA. If it is determined that the IDA acted inappropriately, we need to circulate a petition listing the facts and use it to demand the LC Commission and Barnesville City Council to remove the IDA members from the authority and we should hold the commission and council responsible for any damages resulting from the authority’s action including any depreciation of property values or the burning of any matter other than wood byproducts
Thanks for the enlightening words 8:47. First step, "...gather the facts..." I have been out of town for a few days and I must admit I was shocked to read that tom openly admits he has not read anything official or contacted the IDA about any of his concerns. Tom, listen to your friend 8:47 and gather facts first.
Stop your silly nonsense WDM, it won't work.
I have read the agreements between the IDA and the proposed plant carefully. I also understand the physics behind energy conversion. I have researched the permits and operation of the plant in Michigan that has been touted as an example of how well plants like this work. I have even talked at length with an IDA member.
Maybe you should gather facts before you offer advice? You look foolish when you chastise others for not doing what they have actually done.
1.) The IDA and City of Barnesville set no limits on what this plant can burn or what it can be used for, despite claims they did.
2.) The IDA promised tax abatement despite claims they did not.
3.) The plant in Michigan touted as clean has had some problems. Those problems should have been addressed in any agreement so we don’t have the same problems.
The people really should make decisions about what they want as permanent industries when those industries are major polluters. I don’t believe 8 people, with the only elected member serving illegally, should govern us.
Gene Hardwick, Chairman
Kenneth D. Roberts, Vice-Chairman
Bruce Akins, Secretary/Treasurer
Phillip Bell
Walter Geiger
Raleigh Henry
Jimmy Lyons
Dr. Larry Weill
Do you think unelected people should control your money or commit your community to a long term relationship with a major source of pollution, or do you think the community should control it?
wdm is a bad dude. tom watch where you go and remember where you been.
wdm justb thinks anythig da man does is great cause he cant think for himself
wdm fears nobody , unless your bigger than him! Is this tom fellow a pretty big dude?
Hey Tom...who looks foolish now. Remember, he who calls one a fool is a fool himself.
I see now. Tom just hates the IDA & the board members. He said for the record he was not opposed to the power plant. He is foolish! And who is this Ross lady making statements about IDA members profiting from this project. SLANDER SUIT!
And what does he mean by saying the grey water will smell? It is just his way of adding emotionaly charged crap to try and stir up crap!
wdm you think you are a gift to lamar county but you are one of the bigest ass kissing sobs around. so you think you can judge and not be judged. this blog only lets you think you are important.
Now we know that the dispatch web owner and Tom are behind the barnesvilleblog site. Just look at the photo of the local lumber yard plant. They are trying to give some smokey image of what they think the power plant will look like. Talk about being honest!
WDM for citizen of the year!
wdm dont let them crimp your style. more than likely they live in a home that has wheels still attached and they hate the world for it!
Tom Tauch said "I’ll wager anyone here $100 that the IDA is giving the polluting “Green” power plant a considerable break on taxes and they also didn’t have the foresight to limit what they can burn to wood in the future." It is now abundantly clear that the EPA application is for non-fossil biomass only and it would require consent of local officials to change that. Where do I meet you to pick up my $100?
careful wdm! Rauch might be luring you so that he can open a can of whoop-a** on you.
Mr. Morgan is just being arrogant. Expressing himself on this blog makes him feel important.
if you know wdm at all you know he would say the same stuff to your face and be laughing about it
OK MR NO BALLS
4:25 wdm is good man, he is a very good man.So shut up knocking him. He is makes valid points that must be way over your head or you are too ignorant to percieve what he's relaying.
I WAS TALKING TO YOU NO BALLS
Congratulations wdm. You are treating Tom Rauch in the same way you have accused me of treating some of our elected members. The main difference is that Tom is a private citizen. I guess you and I are a lot alike with one exception. I question the actions of those in the public eye being paid by the taxpayer, and you question private citizens (the tax payers) for exercising their right to question those in the public eye being paid by the tax payer. Something smells really bad. I’d like to be the first to welcome you to a new, and now shared position of what you labeled me, of “Blow Hard”. Nothing personal intended. Check out the now similar reflection in the mirror.
gmc what gives you and Tom the right to publicly accuse local people without merit. He was blasting the IDA before he ever had a chance to read any agreement or contact the IDA what so ever. The same way you were calling out the county commission when the whole ag authority dissolution happened under a completely different administration. Before you call out long standing friends and people who work tirelessly for the community, you better come with some actual facts. The fact is he was wrong in his accusations just like you were wrong with yours.
wdm,
And just like you are wrong with yours. No difference - only differences in opinion. One problem that you have is that when you are shown facts in black and white you still argue that it's made up or that something has to be wrong with it. You don't take the time to listen and comprehend what is being said. You see things only one way. If it's not your way, you refuse to look and listen. Again, nothing personal. I'm telling you what I see. That's why I told you to look in the mirror.
These people who you publicly call out so often are local people who for the most part have called Lamar County home their entire lives and their families live here. You called them incompetent and Tom called them non-trustworthy. I do have a problem with that because I do personally know some of these people. These people are very competent and they are very trustworthy and they do it for next to nothing as far as pay is concerned. You two are going to aggitate some of these good servants so much they are going to want to quit so they don't have to bear the brunt of your illusions of grandeur. So if you want to tangle on the blog keep talking smack about these people.
You are correct WDM! I can assure you there ain't no quit in some of our good local leaders. I support them too.
wdm, I knew I could count on you to unleash some type of character bashing or derogatory comments. I even went so far as to have this prewritten for use.
I have come to a conclusion that you live to disagree, fueled by your own ego and self-appointed need to fill important. It’s apparent to me that this blog fills the appetite for that void. You are entitled to your opinion and I will respect that. If you are willing to support everything and anything, without question, handed to you by our local governing leadership or appointed authorities’; that is your right.
On the other hand, Lamar County has been my home for 54 years. I or anyone else has the right to question any local governing official when I or they consider them wrong. I am sorry but you will just have to continue to have a problem because you know some of these people. I know them too. Just because I know them, or you know them, does not give them any special rights. Apparently, you think it does.
P.S. We don’t have to tangle on a blog. You can get my number from Walter and call me personally and we can make arrangements to meet in Barnesville if you are mature enough to engage in rational verbal communication. I’ll be happy to discuss any comments I’ve ever made. And you can feel free to bring the people you know that you say I have been so critical of.
sounds like gmc wants to get sideways on somebody!
Put the pollution plant on Mill Street- two problems solved!!!!
wdm let me know where and when to meet gmc, i will be there with you.
mo fo he be bad cause he even let everbody konw who he is by writing his name. you bad....lol
the IDA can fool all the people some of the time, and WDM all the time.....folks, we is up to our alligators with a**holes.....lets quit this fussing and get back to local and national politics.....lets hope MCCAIN appoints the right people to the supreme court......the next 4 yrs is very important time, probably 2-3 appointments coming
I love it...now we can add psychoanalyser to gmc's repetaure. How could your friends and neighbors in your district not have elected you to county commissioner? gmc, just remember, talking about the issue isn't the problem it's the name calling of the people you do during your grandstanding that is the problem. Treat these people the way you would have wanted to have been treated if you had been elected and we will all get along just fine.
theres no help for you morgan
what tom doesnt understand is that the republicans in power dont care about pollution, health safty, global warming, and epa guidelines......they only care about bussinesses making money...
dont you like to make money you dweeb.
hey wdm if ya scared say ya scared. gmc ofered you the chance to prove youself right. you know it all so why dont you do it.
12:27 you are as clueless as your leader. He has already presented his evidence to the state in July of last year during the ag authority dissolution and they said he had no case. Look in the blog archives to July of last year and see what it says. His key piece of evidence is a 'legal opinion' not a 'legal fact' that was written by a lawyer not a judge.
I don't know who you are 7:04 PM but I do know you're not wdm. You need to check things out because the state has not disolved the ag authority yet.
wdm you are brainless. you don't know what you are talking about. one of them there gud ol boyz must have his puppet hand so far up your giant sized stinky keester your pupils look like fingernails. i know you think anything they do is good cause they give your family a big tax break. keep on sucking up to them but we know you are lying like a rug.
Why are you so angry with the local leaders? They are doing things that counties all over Ga would love to have happen to them. There is an old saying that applies to the IDA, the proof is in the pudding. They are landing quality industry and that benefits everyone who pays taxes in Lamar County. I don't understand why them doing so good seems to make you so mad.
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