this is an open discussion forum. keep it clean. personal attacks on private citizens will not be tolerated. you may discuss politics if you like but you may not rip or endorse specific local candidates.
Jay and Bobby showed us all that you can run for a position and not against your fellow man. But then again, alot of folks just don't understand that type thinking. It's a shame we could not end the year and start the new year without negative comments. But, then again that's what makes the news, news. So Sad.
In the newspaper article, Burnette is quoted as saying: "I got a lot of things done. More, I think, than wil get done the next thirty years." I'm glad Bobby is such a humble man. He's a pompous, arrogrant ass. He also says he thinks the Florida Rock quarry will be built. Of course it will. Thanks to him.
Mr.Dumaine, how do you blame BB for the rock quarry? Blame the person who sold Fla Rock the land maybe but there was very little local politicians could have done. Fla Rock has been down this road many times and they knew they were going to win any legal battle when they bought the land. But maybe you know something I don't.
anonymous i might be interested in taking your bet and i think i know who you are. i happy gary plans to run again. he is honest and wants the best for all of us and well as him. i know he wants to hear the people needs and act on them. hes not afraid to say what he thinks without hideing behind a fake name and hes not afraid to stand up to anybody. i think we been better off right now if we put him in the seat the last time. we may not even had the big tax hike we all had rammed up us all.
Why won't this guy just go away.About the only thing this guy is good for is selling out the county and the tax payers. First a quarry nobody wanted, next a land fill. How about a hazardous waist land fill. I hear they generate a ton of money. We keep this up and Lamar County will be the armpit of Georgia.
Those of you against the Quarry, What do you suggest BB should have done? Or, In the same position, what would you have done when faced with a legal and legitimate organization seeking to build a business location through legal and legitimate means? Same goes for a landfill.
My understanding is that approval of the quarry centered around obtaining free gravel rock for the county. I don’t know if that is true or not. High explosive use, noise, potential damaging vibrations, and large truck traffic will be experienced at the site. This will prove to be a nuisance to the home owners surrounding the site. I’m told the quarry will not create many Lamar county jobs. I don’t know the amount of tax revenue the quarry will generate but, I am also told it’s not that much. There is also a donated land site for a recreational park adjacent to the quarry. In my opinion, the use of high explosives near an area with frequent visits by the public is not a healthy mix. It’s also my opinion, some people visiting the park will let curiosity get the best of them and venture into dangerous areas for a sneak peek of the quarry.
The quarry site doesn’t affect me like it would the residents in the surrounding area so my opinion is based on how I think it COULD have been done. The county belongs to the people that live and pay taxes here. Therefore, this controversial issue should have been decided by those people. Since the quarry is located in district 2, only district 2 residents should have had the opportunity to make that choice just as they have the opportunity to choose a BOE or BOC representative. Allowing the BOC to make the determination with only 1 commissioner with a real vested interest in the district made the decision a tad lop-sided.
As for the un-lined land fill. In my opinion, only an idiot would allow it. The people that live here have rights and one would be not to have their ground water contaminated by a company that has an interest in dollars rather than environmental damage. Every resident in the county should be interested in eliminating this threat.
But what right do the current residents have to prevent a legal entity from performing a legal act of business? If they don't impose on anyone's rights, they have just as much right to this land as the surrounding residents. Actually, they bought and paid for this land with legitimate money, therefore, they have a greater claim to the rights of this land.
I agree that the landfill should take every measure to ensure that no common drinking water is contaminated. However, with all the governmental red tape, I bet these issues have been addressed in the past. Why don't one of the "concerned" citizens contact the EPA. They have offices everywhere, and a large headquarters in Athens. I am sure they would be more than happy to look into the situation. But, please, do not blame a company or try to discredit them for having an "interest in dollars". That interest in dollars is responsible for building the most powerful economy in the world. It is the only means by which reasonable men can interact.
Jackie Treehorn - I don’t think the point is preventing a company from performing a legal act of business. I think the point is those residents wanting to protect their investment and their families. They have every right to complain and attempt to stop it. Remember, it’s in their back yard. It is likely the same you would do if a company wanted to establish a manure processing plant or perhaps a saw mill in your back yard.
If you really care about Lamar County, you have to care about everyone and how things affect them even when those same effects have no impact on you or your surroundings. PLEASE! Nothing derogatory meant toward you by my comments. It was the only way I could think to phrase it.
No offense taken, and I appreciate your politeness and maturity in discussing this topic. All too often, exchaning ideas and differing view points on a blog can turn into a sophomoric game of name calling.
I am simply questioning the premise that this quarry is, in any way, Bobby Burnette's fault. If this company is acting within the law, I believe it would have been a greater travesty for him to use his powers to prevent them from building a quarry. Because a few people don't like something, or don't want something to happen, does not allow a legal precedence for a government to trump the rights of the undesired. There will always be industries whose existance in residential areas is unwanted. But a government that panders to every whim of a vocal minority, at the expense of the rule of law, is not the answer. Our nation is founded largely on private property rights and the rule of law. Should these two institutions be cast aside because a few residents don't want more traffic and loud noises?
I am not saying that this should be a pleasent experience for the residents. And I agree that it is unfortunate. But, once again, what could have legally been done by BB to keep the quarry out of lamar county?
The rock quarry bought this land and the rights to use it just as the current residents did. Do rights to property inflate as time of ownership passes? If I am to move into a neighborhood, should a group of established residents that don't like me, for whatever reason, be able to have their local politician prevent me from living there legally? Whose rights are being vioilated here? They do have every right to complain and try to stop it. But they do not have a right to defame a man who was simply acting within the laws that govern our society. These people can complain all they want, so long as they don't violate the rights of others. And forbidding this company to legally engage in a legitamate business, would be violating on the rights of the company, the employees, and the shareholders. If someone gets hurt, or a disaster occurs, then they may get there way. But until something like this occurs, tough luck. If you don't like the noise....move.
I do care about Lamar County, but I care more about living in a society based on the rule of law, and reason, and not one based on whims and pandering to voters.
I can understand what you are saying and I’m not trying to lay blame but, Bobby and the rest of the commissioners should have gotten the consensus from the people. I’m fairly confident that Commissioner Brown voiced the concerns of the people of his district to the rest of the board; they just did not listen. He was just one voice so, next came all the legal proceedings. I don’t believe the property was zoned heavy manufacturing when it was purchased therefore, Florida Rock purchased it on a gamble and used their powerful influence to change it with the aid of our BOC. If I’m not mistaken, the quarry issue was a tie vote, 2 for and 2 against, and Bobby broke the tie.
Additionally, where was our commissioners when the asphalt company wanted to start operations in the industrial park. They were blocked from coming in (in my opinion) to secure an IDA investment. This company, from what I have understood would have generated around 200K yearly tax revenues to the county. Now we have just had a large property tax increase, and for what?
The reference of residents attempting to block you from moving into an area in no way relates to residents attempting to block a potential hazardous situation from coming in. The law is important but, just because a law is written in the books doesn’t make it right. When a law is wrong, it needs to be addressed and changed. To change them, people have to be heard and sometimes they must yell as loud as possible.
I do believe many of our commissioners played a role in allowing the quarry in. But, when they finally listened to the people that trusted them to listen to their voice, they were already in over their heads.
Mr. McCall, The one point I have continuously tried to get across is that there is nothing local politicians or the citizens living around it could have done to prevent Fla Rock from starting the rock quarry -- once they purchased the land. Fla Rock is a multi-million, possibly even billion dollar business. They know if nothing else they can break any small county in legal fees -- which is basically what they did, or were in the process of doing to Lamar County. My biggest fault about the whole thing is that no local politicians had the guts to stand up and say "This Fla Rock deal sucks but there is nothing we can do as a county but get in a legal fight that will drive up every Lamar County land owners property taxes -- and in the end we can't win." So fellow Lamar Countians, don't be mad at local politicians over the Fla Rock deal, their was little they could do. You might say they were truly between a rock and a hard spot.
wdm Hope you don't play poker. If you fold your hand that easily, you'll never win.
I've never been one to just lie down and let someone walk over me. Our county shouldn't just lay down either. We should have just said no.
How about no digging permits or use of explosives. If that's no good, how about a very expensive blasting permit that may take time to aquire but is needed prior to every blast. What about an expensive toll road in and out of the area?
Yeah, I know they're all out of the question. The point is that just because they have lots of money, we should'nt turn and run. You have to stand your ground to a bully.
Mr McCall, hello. They have been saying no and look what it has gotten Lamar County. Hundreds of thousands of taxpayer money given to lawyers (of who will not refund the money since they lost the case.) Loss of construction setbacks and pile heighth limits at the quarry once in operation. And the rock quarry is still coming so says the judge that had the final say so. This is your idea of effective goverment? Lamar County fighting FlaRock is the equivalent of carrying a knife to a gunfight. Not good odds.
But there is still nothing any local elected or non elected official could have done to stop the quarry once the land was sold to them. Don't care what they did or who they called.
I believe you missed my point. Because the majority want something, doesn't make it right, or legal. The rock quarry, as a legal entity, enjoys the same property rights as private citizens. The main reason our nation is set up as a republic and not a democracy is to protect the minority (fl rock) from the majority (residents). If we were a democracy, then the whims of these concerned citizens would trump the rights of the rock quarry.
Since it seems you are contemplating a leap into government, what do you see as the role of government in a free society?
Perhaps I’m failing to communicate my view. I’m not in disagreement that a land owner has rights. Both Florida Rock and the residents have rights. My view deals with where one’s rights begin and the other ends as it is with this particular local issue.
The people of our little county elect their leadership to represent and protect them and their interest. We have four districts. Each commissioner is responsible to those people in that district that elected him/her. In simple terms, they must be willing to fight for those people. Every battle would basically be the equivalent of taking a knife to a gunfight. If the county as a whole is in agreement with that single district, that is enough precedence to stop any entity from taking over because they have money. Now, this may seem contradictory of what I said previously about that single district having total say but, that is looking at the picture as the elected representative of that district only.
If it is the consensus of the people to turn and run away from a battle because a company has the money to throw their weight around and get their way regardless of what the people want, then we are in serious trouble. We don’t need a local government that is not willing to stand up for their people.
And Jackie – That was a broad question. Narrow it a bit. I’ll be happy to give you my view on any national political issue if I have one. I’ll say what I think and stand behind it until I’m proven wrong. Then, I’ll be the first to admit it.
I agree that the local government should stand up for its people, but at what expense? Because the will of the people is calling for a certain action, in no way makes it legal or reasonable. This sole reason, protection of the minority, is why our nation was founded as a republic based on law, instead of a democracy based on the whim of the majority. Had it not been, then any attrosity could be carried out to the extent of the size of your gang. In this case, the rock quarry has not, and is not planning to violate any rights of the citizens of this county. Driving dump trucks, using dynamite, and the general operations of a rock quarry, in no way, violate any rights of the citizens.
The question about the role of government could be a very broad question, but it can be very simply answered. I will provide my answer to ensure you that I am not trying to lead you into a trap. I believe the role of government is simply to protect the rights; life, liberty, and property; of its citizens. None of these three rights are being violated by the operation of the quarry, therefore, government has no place in the issue. If the quarry, due to negligence, contaminates public drinking water, causes a citizen bodily harm through reckless practices, or causes damage to one's property, then the government has every right to step in and punish the responsible parties. But until then, the government has no role in the issue.
But the local government did put up a fight and look what the result was -- the rock quarry is still coming and the local people living around it lost valuable setback and stockpile heighth limits -- not to mention the amount of money it has cost taxpayers. Once Fla Rock owned the land there was no one to trump them -- no matter how or who put up the fight. The proof is in the pudding. If you had been in office, the final results would be the same -- the rock quarry is coming.
I guess the only thing we can do is to agree to disagree.
I would ask that you take a look at these links and still say it’s impossible to fight the big corporation. Contra Costa county Supervisor Jon Gioia stated, it's about local citizens having the right to make the laws in their own communities, “not Wal-Mart executives in Bentonville, Arkansas .” There is help out there if you look for it.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/
Restoring Citizen Authority Over Corporations
http://www.celdf.org/
The Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund
CELDF was formed to provide free and affordable legal services to community-based groups and local governments working to protect their quality of life and the natural environment through building sustainable communities. Increasingly, that means teaming up with people and their municipal representatives to mount campaigns that challenge the legal clout of corporations to overrule decisions made by citizens for their communities.
For some communities, safeguarding their future means creating local constitutions, or home rule charters, that enumerate rights of local citizens, and of ecosystems -- and backing up those rights with enforceable law.
The Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund 675 Mower Road Chambersburg, Pennsylvania 17201
Pennsylvania Township Becomes First in the Nation to Ban Corporate Mining
Becomes Third Municipality in Pennsylvania to Recognize the Rights Of Nature, and Seventh in the Nation to Strip Corporations of “Rights”
CONTACT: Thomas Linzey, Esq. tal@pa.net (717) 709-0457
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Chambersburg, Pennsylvania (October 17) – On October 16th , the Blaine Township, Washington County, Pennsylvania Board of Supervisors unanimously voted to adopt an Ordinance banning corporations from mining within the Township. Passed to confront concerns about corporate longwall coal mining in the Township, the Ordinance prohibits corporations from engaging in mining activities. With its passage, the Township becomes the first municipality in the United States to ban corporate mining.
Jackie - from our own declaration - to ensure Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness; just about says it all. Give me some time and I'll try and give you a better answer in my own words.
How is the quarry hindering any of the citizens from life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness?
For a little help, or to alteast understand my point better, please read "The Law", by Frederick Bastiat. It is very short (should only take about 30 mins to an hour), but should be read by anyone in a governmental position.
If the county commissioners could have stopped the quarry or not is a moot point. Same with the landfill. Lamar will become the county that never gets any legitimate business, just the ones the other counties dont want. If Treehorn and whoever sold them the land in the 1st place thinks they are such a good idea I hope they get in front of one of those Florida drivers one rainy night and their car will only run 55. It would serve them right. What ever happened to citizens right!!!
What was the original post on this site. Wasn't it Burnette says he'll runn again in '08? A bunch of you are posting all this crap about the rock quarry of which none of you can do anything about and the rock quarry question has been settle after the idiots that so called lead this county spend all the tax dollars in legal fees..Let dead dogs lie.
Anonymous 10:01, which is why it has been correctly referred to as a moot point. I started this conversation when people started bad mouthing BB over a presumption that he "sold out" the people of lamar county. I simply asked what he could have done to prevent the quarry from legally operating their business? Which, to answer, you have to ask yourself what role should the local government play in this situation?
FT, I disagree. A democratic government would exist for the purpose you have stated. The best interest would arise from whichever side could foster the most support. If the issue was desegregation of our school systems, and the whites outnumbered the blacks, then, under your presumed purpose of government, we would still have segregation in our schools. However, a proper government exists only to protect its citizen's rights from intrusion by force. We all have the inherent right to protect our life, liberty, and property through the use of force. Government is nothing more than that right being carried out collectively.
To answer you question, a government should serve the interest of who is right, not who has the most people on their side, and not who has lived here the longest, and not who has the most friends in government.
I will ask again, what specific rights of the effected citizens are being violated by the rock quarry?
I think it would be a safe bet to say that Treehorn doesnt live anywhere near the gravel pit site or the landfill. I dont either, but other people do and they will have to deal with this problem as long as they live here. And there will be problems. While no personal rights may not be violated the right to a quiet, peaceful life the people who live in this area thought they were getting will be gone. Treehorn, have you even been to a rock quarry? Dust, noise, speeding trucks are what you will see. Very few jobs, wear on highways, increased traffic, etc. There are no positive benefits to having this business in our county other than tax dollars and those I am sure will not equal the increase I have to pay once the lawyers fees to keep them out were tacked on our tax bill. There is an old saying: Dont go where you are not wanted! Florida Rock probably laughs at that. As long as they can bully their way in and they can find some person who doesnt care about their neighbors they will be happy. Maybe next time Treehorn it will be in your backyard and i hope you still have the same view you have now cause you are gonna need it.
Why am i going to need a view point? I dont understand.
I have never once said it was going to be pleasant for the citizens, and how they handle it is up to them. But don't scream about the rock quarry violating citizens rights, when none are being violated. And don't blame the county leaders for upholding their duties to protect the constitutional rights of ALL.
"There are no positive benefits to having this business in our county other than tax dollars.."
And? What is your point? Is it the purpose of a business to provide a benefit to the community? Is business a grace from the government, in which we have to seek their approval before opening one?
The reason you dont understand is because it is not happening to you. Go to the FR quarry in Spalding and watch what happens. Would you want this in your neighborhood? Other communities are succesful in keeping out Walmarts and other business they dont want but not Lamar. By letting these type business in we keep out jobs that might actually pay someone a decent salary because nobody wants to live in a county that gets dumped on. I thought that, just maybe, after Carters closed we might finally get some jobs in the county that people could work at and be paid a decent wage. I was wrong. Upson county rebounded very well from their mill closings. Why didnt we? I am not blaming BB or anyone else. It was just handled wrong from the start. I am not crying about peoples rights, or business right. It is just amazing to me that anyone will try to defend corporate bullies. Sounds like something Boortz would say, and by the way, Treehorn, I dont listen to him either. Like I said before if it was in your backyard you wouldnt like it either. As far as the purpose of a business it is for the most part to show a profit, so I guess you are right but I dont need your civics lessons. Maybe they could relocate the "Love Shack" next to you. How would you like that?
I dont understand what? I dont understand that these residents don't want the rock quarry because it is loud and their will be increased traffic from dump trucks. How hard is that to understand? I don't need one nextdoor to me to understand your point of view.
Hold on, Spalding county has one of these terrible rock quarries? But how is that possible with all the other industries and businesses in that town? I thought the quarry would keep those businesses out. Isn't that what you taught me?
I want the love shack next to me. I bet it is a great place to pick up chicks with "compromised" morals. Don't get me started on the John's Creek prudes. Let's stick to one set of citizens who feels it their right to trample those of another.
And, since you see it the role of our government to pander to the vocal majority, without concern for the law or the rights of the minority, you obviously do need my civic lessons. And for them, you are welcome.
PS. I almost peed myself when you said I sound like Boortz.
"By letting these type business in we keep out jobs that might actually pay someone a decent salary because nobody wants to live in a county that gets dumped on."
You better hurry up and tell the DOT that noone wants to live in Spalding County. They are about to spend lots of our money improving 16 due to increased traffic. Also, tell the families that they will never make a decent salary in that county, and remind the businesses that they have located in a county with a rock quarry.
There are over 85 quarries in Georgia alone, some in affluent counties such as Henry, Cobb & Gwinnett.
Other than living next to a quarry, which is not really any worse than living next to a factory, what is wrong with a quarry? When they have finished mining all the rock, old quarries make great fishing, boating and recreation areas by filling them up with water.
you all want business or industries that pay higher to come to lamar co,would you?proberly not if you were held to the truth,when a business is going to relocate to an area the first thing they do is vist that area,without anyone knowing,see what the general population is like,and that gives them an idea of the type of people they will have working for them.just visit Barnesville or ingles for that matter,it brings to mind a third world country,just listen to people talk,just what language are they speeking?no one in their right mind would locate here.if they do it will just be a business thats looking for cheap unskilled labor.
I dont need your civic lessons or anything you got. If you can say that you would not try to fight to stop the rock if it were going to be put next you you are either a wimp or a person who truly believes that corporations should be allowed to do anything they desire. Either way, you are a loser.
"In the same position, what would you have done when faced with a legal and legitimate organization seeking to build a business location through legal and legitimate means? Same goes for a landfill."
Now we're building Love Shacks and trying to get to wild women on a 2 lane road in a rain storm in a car that will only go 55, and we have rock trucks on our bumper.
I thought the conversation was how it could, or if it could have been handled another way. It kinda elevated into how and/or why the district commissioner should stay involved, should it continue, or should it stop. How/if it violates the those citizens that will live close by. How our founding fathers built our government. My opinion on government in a free society. Who knows? What next?
Jackie - similar to the answer you gave me about government, basically taken from the Constitution, I responded with an answer taken from the Declaration. I wasn't refering to the blog comments. It's hard to put it any better than the way it was defined long ago.
Our founding fathers defined our form of government as a democratic republic, or perhaps it was a republic demoncracy. I can't remember which way it is refered to.
On a different note - It is not the right of an elected official of the people to give up a battle. The people that elected him/her will make that determination. Until that time comes, that official continues to push ahead, regardless of how the other districts see it. That official is representing those people that elected him/her and that's where his/her responsibility lies.
I very briefly scanned over "The Law", by Frederick Bastia. When I get more time I will read to comprehend it. Please understand that I said briefly scanned, and I may be way-way off base, and if I am I apologize now, but to me it had overtones of
The Communist Manifesto: Globalisation, The Nation-State and Class Struggle
More reading - http://socialistregister.com/socialistregister.com/files/SR_1998_Beamish.pdf
Anyway, that's all I have to say for now. We can all get upset over some blog comments or opinions of others. I know I'm guilty of it as FT could maybe say. But at times you can learn something you didn't know. Getting the opinions from others will sometimes allow you to get a better reflection of yourself. That valuable information will allow you to be a better person. Just remember one thing: If the think that you may get offended by the answer, don't ask the question.
It's not necessarily right to put the rock quarry in the same category as any other business because God obviously planted a rock the size of stone mountain in the ground out there on 36. Even though from our perspective on the ground it all appears the same as any other piece of property in the county it's not.
I asked the question to simply cause people to think before throwing BB under the bus because of his actions regarding the quarry. Just as it isn't the governments job to start businesses, it isn't its job to stop businesses.
"The Law" is the complete opposite, and actually a warning against the socialist ideals and the inevitable lead into communism they would bring.
Democratic republic defined [Web Answer]: > A democratic republic is an entity in which the head of state is elected, directly or indirectly, for a fixed tenure.
The United States, for example, is a federal republic with states that have their own legal standing and authority independent of the federal government. American states cannot be abolished or changed by the federal government. States possess significant responsibilities in such fields as education, health, transportation, and law enforcement. Individual states in the United States have generally followed the federalist model by delegating many functions such as the operation of schools and police departments, to local communities. Federal, state, and local agencies can all have overlapping and conflicting agendas but federalism does maximize opportunities for the citizen involvement so vital to the functioning of democratic society.
All democracies are systems in which citizens freely make political decisions by majority rule. But rule by the majority is not necessarily democratic: No one, for example, would call a system fair or just that permitted 51 percent of the population to oppress the remaining 49 percent in the name of the majority. In a democratic society, majority rule must be coupled with guarantees of individual human rights that, in turn, serve to protect the rights of minorities--whether ethnic, religious, or political, or simply the losers in the debate over a piece of controversial legislation. The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by majority vote. The rights of minorities are protected because democratic laws and institutions protect the rights of all citizens.
What is a minority [Web Answer] > Minority is defined as a racial, religious, political, national, or other group regarded as different from the larger group of which it is part.
What is a Minority Group: > A subordinate group whose members have significantly less control or power over their lives than members of a dominant or majority group.
Characteristics of a Minority Group: > Distinguishing physical or cultural traits, e.g. skin color or language for example.
What is a corporation: > A corporation is a legal entity which, while being composed of natural persons, exists completely separately from them. This separation gives the corporation unique powers which other legal entities lack. The extent and scope of its status and capacity is determined by the law of the place of incorporation.
A corporation is not a minority: It may be minority owned but cannot obtain minority status.
Do the owners not have rights to engange in a legal business process? Is it not a minority vs a majority issue? The people who don't want the rock quarry (majority) vs the owners and the proponents of the quarry (minority). In this case you have a greater number of people trying to use the law and the police force of the government to hinder the God given rights of a smaller number of people.
I think we have agreed that Bobby Burnette is not to blame for the rock quarry, as he was merely upholding his sworn duty as a public servant.
Treehorn, I am glad I dont have to depend on you to go for the ammunition. You must have stock in FR. Citizens have a right to fight against what they do not want in their neighborhood. This county would be in even worse shape than they are already in if everyone gave up like you.
Anonymous, you made two assumptions as the logic of your previous post, and both are wrong.
Did I say that citizens didn't have a right to stand up to FR? I believe I said, "They do have every right to complain and try to stop it. But they do not have a right to defame a man who was simply acting within the laws that govern our society. These people can complain all they want, so long as they don't violate the rights of others". Are you sure you have the slightest understanding of our disagreeance?
I only said that FR has not violated any of their rights, and to throw our government officials under the proverbial bus as the sacrificial lamb for everything that goes wrong in their lives is, not only wrong, but completely un-American.
Did I give up?
I never wanted to keep them out of Lamar County. I never really took a stance on whether or not I want them here at all. However, I have taken a stance that they have violated noone's rights, and our government handled this situation correctly. So, based on my original stance, have I given up or conceded any ground to your side's backward reasoning.
How can you say I own stock in FR, implying that I want the rock quarry in Lamar County, or that I will benefit from it, then say that I gave up? If your falsely presumed notion of my stance was correct, it would seem as if I have not given up.....but I have won.
I don't own stock in FR, nor know anyone that does. I do, however, have a solid understanding of the role of government in a capitalist economy, and the inherent rights of every man, be it a Lamar county resident of 50 years, or an owner of FR looking to do business.
Treehorn. Do the people who have worked hard all their life and thought they would be be living in a nice quiet place not have any rights? We just lost out to big business, unlike other places. If you would do a little research you just might find other communities keep out "undesirable" companies, and i dont need you to quote me something out of a book as to what is or is not desirable or what the "government" should be allowed to do, even if the law allows it. Right is right and the majority never got the right to even vote! I would just like you to answer the question, if it was in your backyard, would you not try to fight it, or would you just give in? In all your ramblings you never adress the issue? Dumb question. You would give in. Whatever the "government" or law says is right. End of question. This gravel dump will not affect me personally as i live on the other side of the county and other than speeding trucks, accidents, dust, and broken windshields i have no problem with FR as i am quite sure that some company that has to go where they are not wanted, and i am sure you will defend that right, doesnt give a damn what the people think that have to put up with all the problems they will cause. I just dont like to see people getting screwed and the direction our government is going in, where the people who live here dont have the right to even vote on issues that will impact their lives but immigrants are given Dairy Queens, package stores, and little or no taxes but the people who were born here would only be laughed at if we tried to apply for a government loan to buy a business, and please Treehorn, spare me your redneck, bigot, good ole boy comments because i dont have anything anything against immigrants except they should not be given benefits that natural born citizens dont have.. Mccall posted websites of organizations designed to keep out unwanted businesses. Why didnt our county leaders have the brains to do a little research to see what other places have done to keep out companies they didnt want. Guess that never crossed their little minds. We should have been allowed to vote, if not countywide at the very least in that district. Do you even have a clue, that given a vote, how this thing would have been decided? Probably not, because according to you, what the government wants is what they get.
Since you either refuse to read, or cannot comprehend what you have read, I am going to try, one more time, to explain my stance on the issue.
"Do the people who have worked hard all their life and thought they would be be living in a nice quiet place not have any rights?" Yes. They do. As I said numerous times. I thought it would suffice to say it in my previous post, to which you responded directly. ("Did I say that citizens didn't have a right to stand up to FR? I believe I said, "They do have every right to complain and try to stop it. But they do not have a right to defame a man who was simply acting within the laws that govern our society. These people can complain all they want, so long as they don't violate the rights of others". Are you sure you have the slightest understanding of our disagreeance?"). I guess not, so, to answer your question, yes they do have rights. Now to ask you a question, what rights of theirs have been violated?
"and i dont need you to quote me something out of a book as to what is or is not desirable or what the "government" should be allowed to do, even if the law allows it." What do you have against books? You don't need a quote from a book because you are afraid to challenge your beliefs. I never said a word about what the government should be allowed to do. I only said what it shouldn't be allowed to do, and that is to prevent legitimate businesses from locating withint their municipalities. Once again, a simple disagreeance due to your lack of effort or ability to comprehend what you have read.
"Right is right and the majority never got the right to even vote!" Therein lies the problem. You have no basic understanding of the structure of our government. We live in a democratic republic. Look it up. We do not vote on individual issues. You have expained a democracy, or a system of mob rule. This was explicitly warned against by our founding fathers. I would provide a quote supporting this, but I read it in a book; and I know how you feel about books.
"I would just like you to answer the question, if it was in your backyard, would you not try to fight it, or would you just give in? " You didn't give me alternative choices. Are "not try to fight it" and "just give in" differing options? I am under the impression that "just giving in" is the same as "not trying to fight it". Just kidding. I know what you meant. Yes, I would try to fight it. However, I wouldn't blame the government for everything that goes wrong in my life and look for them to help. Living free means you are free to take responsibility for the good and the bad that happens in your life.
"I just dont like to see people getting screwed and the direction our government is going in, where the people who live here dont have the right to even vote on issues that will impact their lives but immigrants are given Dairy Queens, package stores, and little or no taxes but the people who were born here would only be laughed at if we tried to apply for a government loan to buy a business, and please Treehorn, spare me your redneck, bigot, good ole boy comments because i dont have anything anything against immigrants except they should not be given benefits that natural born citizens dont have.. " Aside from the overwhelming grammatical errors, this run-on sentence is so full of contradictions that I don't know where to begin. I guess my main question is how you were able to draw a parrallel between citizens voting on a rock quarry and immigrants owning businesses? I don't approve of government loans for business either. It is just inherently wrong to use tax payer's money that was stolen at the point of a gun to fund someone else's business ventures. Of course, you only have a problem with them because they are given to immigrants, and not you, since your rights obviously grow stronger with the amount of time you live here.
"We should have been allowed to vote, if not countywide at the very least in that district." Did you read this before you clicked publish? Do you still have a vinyl sign in your yard with the old GA flag on it? I don't know how else to explain it. We enjoy a democratic republic. We elect leaders, the leaders make the decisions. We do not vote on issues. If you don't like the way our government is set up, move to a completely democratic country. You can have a vote daily on every issue that arises.
"Do you even have a clue, that given a vote, how this thing would have been decided? " Yes. However, it is too bad for those people the will of the majority doesn't write laws in this nation.
I moved away from Barnesville 36 years ago, but still enjoy reading the Gazette. But just who is G McCall and Jackie Treehorn? why don't you just call each other or better still, go to work.
Because I don't know his number - and besides what are you complaining about. If you don't like what's written - don't read it. If no one wrote - there would be no blog. And, I go to work everyday thank you.
I am sure Mr. Mccall is probably a hard working person who is trying to be a concerned citizen. Treehorn sounds like some kid, maybe even Cameron Frye, that has never had a job and believes whatever the the teacher says. When you get out and work for a living you start caring how your government works, and if they are not doing their job you let em know. Scuse me, professor Treehorn, I might have thrown a run on grammatical error or a run-on sentence in here. What kind of flag I have in my yard aint none of your business, kid, so go wipe the milk off your mouth. Now here is something that is not a run-on sentence. Children should be seen and not heard.
Treehorn, you got something againt people with old Ga. flags in their yards? After all your crap about freedom and democracy and you dont believe people should have the right to display whatever they want. If you are gonna be weak and stupid at least be consistant about it.
I think so too. Since we havent heard from young Cameron in a while maybe he decided to come back as Jackie Treehouse. Either way they both think they have all the answers and anyone who disagrees with them is a fool. Children these days have no manners. Just ignore him, but most people do that anyway.
Wow. I am going to keep this short, but I would like answers to the questions I am going to ask.
Anonymous 4:55, Since you are so concerned with our government doing their job, you should be able to answer one simple question. What is our government's job? Or, since we are talking business here, what is the job of a government in a free market society?
Also, I can't help but believe that your assumption of GMcCall's status as a hard working citizen, arises only from the fact that his point of view agrees with you. So to sum up your argument, anyone that agrees and gives in to your reasoning is a hard working responsible citizen; anyone that doesn't is an irresponsible kid with no clue as to the goings on of our government. Now please answer my question.
And now I know you hate books and propper grammar. You aren't making a strong case to support your arguments.
Anonymous 6:42, I wasn't referring to the freedom to fly the flag of your choice. I was referring to the little vinyl signs that have the old GA flag on them and the words "Let Us Vote". These signs embody the false assumption that we live in a democracy, where every issue is voted on and decided by popular vote. Please name one issue which has become law as a result of popular vote alone. Which brings me, again, to the fact that due to our differing opinions, you will refuse to read anything I have written. In almost every post on this topic, along with many others, I have addressed the issue that we are not a democracy, but a republic.
JNC, I don't think anyone that disagrees with me is a fool, I just think they are wrong. I disagree with GMcCall on this issue. I don't think he is a fool. I think we just have differing opinions on the role of our government. He has backed up his argument with reason and logic instead of discrediting mine with my age. However, I do think that anyone that will use my age against my argument instead of forming a logical rebutle of their own is a fool. Since I am 24 yrs young, does that mean that I have a lesser understanding of government than you? I would be willing to bet that I can go toe to toe with you on any issue of the day, as well as any issue you care to tackle regarding governmental philosophy.
I am open for intelligent discussion of any stance I have taken. I am also open to changing my view point when a convincingly strong argument is formed by one of you. But none of you have yet to answer one simple question. In spite of all the crying about citizen's rights, you cannot name one single right that has been violated by Florida Rock.
I have one question. I think it's a reasonable question.
I have nothing against a person formulating their own opinion over any subject and, like I said, I enjoyed discussing this subject with Treehorn. However, I thought I was discussing it with a person using a real name. The name I use is the name given to me at birth.
Regardless, this is my question.
When Jackie Treehorn, or anyone else, feels so strongly over an issue, WHY are they afraid to attach their real name to it?
If a person is not willing to defend their opinion over something, then that person must have doubt about their opinion, or they are afraid of being proven wrong. Even the most intelligent person in the world can't be right about everything.
I know I'm not correct about all the issues. But, if I"m going to debate an opinion that I feel strong about, people have a right to know where the opinion came from. Then, if I'm proven wrong, I'll also have the opportunity to be the first to admit it.
While it's true that you may get knocked around some defending your opinion (even may have to pull your foot out of your mouth), It's my opinion you'll have more respect defending it as a real person and being wrong, than being right and afraid to stand up for your own beliefs as a real person.
WELL LAST NIGHT WHEN I ASKED WHO MCCALL AND TREEHORN WERE, I GUESS I OPENED A CAN OF WORMS. I'LL STAY ANONYMOUS BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T KNOW ME ANYWAY. I RETIRED AT 57 SO I CAN STAY ON THE COMPUTER IF I LIKE. I'LL BE "WATCHING"
You asked: - Please name one issue which has become law as a result of popular vote alone.
Well I don’t know if I can answer this question and be able to explain it with any degree of understanding but, I’m giving it a shot.
Excluding elections using the vote by the people where the Electoral College will come into play, all voting is decided by the majority. - The Lottery - Beer sales in our own county and city - Everything put on a ballot; (SPLOST) for example
Please - you don't have to just watch. Please feel free to get involved and voice your opinions. They are just as important as any of the others and they are most welcome.
If my comment appeared rude - please accept my apology.
You make a good point with the SPLOST funds. The purpose of SPLOST voting, as I see it, is to get input from the community that foots the bill, as to how the money should be spent. This did answer my question. However, this is voting on an issue that deals mostly with what the government should be allowed to do. The rock quarry issue, on the other hand, would be deciding on what citizens should be allowed to do. I dont know if I am making sense, but the government gets its authority and rights to function from the people. Therefore a vote limiting the government's power is not the same as a vote limiting the powers of legal citizens. Voting on the issue and use of SPLOST is not the same as voting to prevent a completely legal entity from performing a completely legal activity.
Did the lottery not have to pass the same legislative procedures as anyother bill?
As far as the beer sell issue goes, I believe our county was wrong to be dry in the first place, and secondly was wrong to put the decision on the shoulders of the people. Personally, I don't think it is up to the majority whether or not a business can sell beer or liquor. If you don't like beer or liquor, don't buy it. But that goes back to our differing opinions on the role of government. I believe a business selling me beer, and me buying beer, in no way imposes on the rights of my neighbors, therefore the government has no role.
treehouse or frye, whatever you want to be, if you were so sure of your convictions you would use your real name. one of the reasons no one nobody pays any attention to you is you think you are so smart and all you do is run off at the mouth. if you are so sure of yourself print your real name so maybe when we meet you on the street we can discuss the issues. you aint scared, are you?
Thank God above that people are finally seeing that the Burnette family does NOT walk on water in this town and are seeing them for what they really are. I don't mean to sound so bad about all of them but lets get real....they have skated on their name for way too long. In fact Bobby Burnette has on several occasions treated people who are "BENEATH HIM and HIS" so cruel and its about time he get a job where it actually requires you know SOMETHING and not SOMEONE!!!!! Jimmy Burnette was working illegal aliens and paying them nothing forever AND getting prisoners out of the county jail to work for him until that long waited law suit from one!! I love America and the fact that just MY tiny little vote makes a difference!! GOD BLESS AMERICA
77 comments:
Wonderful! It will be an honor to have another opportunity to NOT vote for him.
you have so much hatred in your soul
That is interesting. Who is he going to run against?
Bobby - It will be a pleasure to run against you.
Jay and Bobby showed us all that you can run for a position and not against your fellow man. But then again, alot of folks just don't understand that type thinking. It's a shame we could not end the year and start the new year without negative comments. But, then again that's what makes the news, news. So Sad.
gary i'll take bobby and give you 10 to 1 odds. i know who am i? take the bet on qualifing day and i'll tell you
Don't think I want to take that bet. The people don't know me as good as they do Bobby.
When the time comes, I'll just do the best I can and leave it up to the people.
What did Bobby Burnette say he was going to run against?
In the newspaper article, Burnette is quoted as saying: "I got a lot of things done. More, I think, than wil get done the next thirty years." I'm glad Bobby is such a humble man. He's a pompous, arrogrant ass. He also says he thinks the Florida Rock quarry will be built. Of course it will. Thanks to him.
go florida rock go yea
darn right bring on the quarry go fla rock go!!!
Go Fla Rock get the quarry done, the quicker you finish the supply of rock the quicker we can have an airport
Mr.Dumaine, how do you blame BB for the rock quarry? Blame the person who sold Fla Rock the land maybe but there was very little local politicians could have done. Fla Rock has been down this road many times and they knew they were going to win any legal battle when they bought the land. But maybe you know something I don't.
There is an Annie Mae Harris listed in the Griffin Daily News website. Is she the councilwoman?
anonymous i might be interested in taking your bet and i think i know who you are. i happy gary plans to run again. he is honest and wants the best for all of us and well as him. i know he wants to hear the people needs and act on them. hes not afraid to say what he thinks without hideing behind a fake name and hes not afraid to stand up to anybody. i think we been better off right now if we put him in the seat the last time. we may not even had the big tax hike we all had rammed up us all.
Why won't this guy just go away.About the only thing this guy is good for is selling out the county and the tax payers. First a quarry nobody wanted, next a land fill. How about a hazardous waist land fill. I hear they generate a ton of money. We keep this up and Lamar County will be the armpit of Georgia.
anon 9:47 am, tell us more about those "hazardous waists". does this mean fat people are dangerous?
Those of you against the Quarry, What do you suggest BB should have done? Or, In the same position, what would you have done when faced with a legal and legitimate organization seeking to build a business location through legal and legitimate means? Same goes for a landfill.
My understanding is that approval of the quarry centered around obtaining free gravel rock for the county. I don’t know if that is true or not. High explosive use, noise, potential damaging vibrations, and large truck traffic will be experienced at the site. This will prove to be a nuisance to the home owners surrounding the site. I’m told the quarry will not create many Lamar county jobs. I don’t know the amount of tax revenue the quarry will generate but, I am also told it’s not that much. There is also a donated land site for a recreational park adjacent to the quarry. In my opinion, the use of high explosives near an area with frequent visits by the public is not a healthy mix. It’s also my opinion, some people visiting the park will let curiosity get the best of them and venture into dangerous areas for a sneak peek of the quarry.
The quarry site doesn’t affect me like it would the residents in the surrounding area so my opinion is based on how I think it COULD have been done. The county belongs to the people that live and pay taxes here. Therefore, this controversial issue should have been decided by those people. Since the quarry is located in district 2, only district 2 residents should have had the opportunity to make that choice just as they have the opportunity to choose a BOE or BOC representative. Allowing the BOC to make the determination with only 1 commissioner with a real vested interest in the district made the decision a tad lop-sided.
As for the un-lined land fill. In my opinion, only an idiot would allow it. The people that live here have rights and one would be not to have their ground water contaminated by a company that has an interest in dollars rather than environmental damage. Every resident in the county should be interested in eliminating this threat.
But what right do the current residents have to prevent a legal entity from performing a legal act of business? If they don't impose on anyone's rights, they have just as much right to this land as the surrounding residents. Actually, they bought and paid for this land with legitimate money, therefore, they have a greater claim to the rights of this land.
I agree that the landfill should take every measure to ensure that no common drinking water is contaminated. However, with all the governmental red tape, I bet these issues have been addressed in the past. Why don't one of the "concerned" citizens contact the EPA. They have offices everywhere, and a large headquarters in Athens. I am sure they would be more than happy to look into the situation. But, please, do not blame a company or try to discredit them for having an "interest in dollars". That interest in dollars is responsible for building the most powerful economy in the world. It is the only means by which reasonable men can interact.
Jackie Treehorn -
I don’t think the point is preventing a company from performing a legal act of business. I think the point is those residents wanting to protect their investment and their families. They have every right to complain and attempt to stop it. Remember, it’s in their back yard. It is likely the same you would do if a company wanted to establish a manure processing plant or perhaps a saw mill in your back yard.
If you really care about Lamar County, you have to care about everyone and how things affect them even when those same effects have no impact on you or your surroundings. PLEASE! Nothing derogatory meant toward you by my comments. It was the only way I could think to phrase it.
No offense taken, and I appreciate your politeness and maturity in discussing this topic. All too often, exchaning ideas and differing view points on a blog can turn into a sophomoric game of name calling.
I am simply questioning the premise that this quarry is, in any way, Bobby Burnette's fault. If this company is acting within the law, I believe it would have been a greater travesty for him to use his powers to prevent them from building a quarry. Because a few people don't like something, or don't want something to happen, does not allow a legal precedence for a government to trump the rights of the undesired. There will always be industries whose existance in residential areas is unwanted. But a government that panders to every whim of a vocal minority, at the expense of the rule of law, is not the answer. Our nation is founded largely on private property rights and the rule of law. Should these two institutions be cast aside because a few residents don't want more traffic and loud noises?
I am not saying that this should be a pleasent experience for the residents. And I agree that it is unfortunate. But, once again, what could have legally been done by BB to keep the quarry out of lamar county?
The rock quarry bought this land and the rights to use it just as the current residents did. Do rights to property inflate as time of ownership passes? If I am to move into a neighborhood, should a group of established residents that don't like me, for whatever reason, be able to have their local politician prevent me from living there legally? Whose rights are being vioilated here? They do have every right to complain and try to stop it. But they do not have a right to defame a man who was simply acting within the laws that govern our society. These people can complain all they want, so long as they don't violate the rights of others. And forbidding this company to legally engage in a legitamate business, would be violating on the rights of the company, the employees, and the shareholders. If someone gets hurt, or a disaster occurs, then they may get there way. But until something like this occurs, tough luck. If you don't like the noise....move.
I do care about Lamar County, but I care more about living in a society based on the rule of law, and reason, and not one based on whims and pandering to voters.
I can understand what you are saying and I’m not trying to lay blame but, Bobby and the rest of the commissioners should have gotten the consensus from the people. I’m fairly confident that Commissioner Brown voiced the concerns of the people of his district to the rest of the board; they just did not listen. He was just one voice so, next came all the legal proceedings. I don’t believe the property was zoned heavy manufacturing when it was purchased therefore, Florida Rock purchased it on a gamble and used their powerful influence to change it with the aid of our BOC. If I’m not mistaken, the quarry issue was a tie vote, 2 for and 2 against, and Bobby broke the tie.
Additionally, where was our commissioners when the asphalt company wanted to start operations in the industrial park. They were blocked from coming in (in my opinion) to secure an IDA investment. This company, from what I have understood would have generated around 200K yearly tax revenues to the county. Now we have just had a large property tax increase, and for what?
The reference of residents attempting to block you from moving into an area in no way relates to residents attempting to block a potential hazardous situation from coming in. The law is important but, just because a law is written in the books doesn’t make it right. When a law is wrong, it needs to be addressed and changed. To change them, people have to be heard and sometimes they must yell as loud as possible.
I do believe many of our commissioners played a role in allowing the quarry in. But, when they finally listened to the people that trusted them to listen to their voice, they were already in over their heads.
Mr. McCall, The one point I have continuously tried to get across is that there is nothing local politicians or the citizens living around it could have done to prevent Fla Rock from starting the rock quarry -- once they purchased the land. Fla Rock is a multi-million, possibly even billion dollar business. They know if nothing else they can break any small county in legal fees -- which is basically what they did, or were in the process of doing to Lamar County. My biggest fault about the whole thing is that no local politicians had the guts to stand up and say "This Fla Rock deal sucks but there is nothing we can do as a county but get in a legal fight that will drive up every Lamar County land owners property taxes -- and in the end we can't win." So fellow Lamar Countians, don't be mad at local politicians over the Fla Rock deal, their was little they could do. You might say they were truly between a rock and a hard spot.
wdm
Hope you don't play poker. If you fold your hand that easily, you'll never win.
I've never been one to just lie down and let someone walk over me. Our county shouldn't just lay down either. We should have just said no.
How about no digging permits or use of explosives. If that's no good, how about a very expensive blasting permit that may take time to aquire but is needed prior to every blast. What about an expensive toll road in and out of the area?
Yeah, I know they're all out of the question. The point is that just because they have lots of money, we should'nt turn and run. You have to stand your ground to a bully.
Mr McCall, hello. They have been saying no and look what it has gotten Lamar County. Hundreds of thousands of taxpayer money given to lawyers (of who will not refund the money since they lost the case.) Loss of construction setbacks and pile heighth limits at the quarry once in operation. And the rock quarry is still coming so says the judge that had the final say so. This is your idea of effective goverment? Lamar County fighting FlaRock is the equivalent of carrying a knife to a gunfight. Not good odds.
But there is still nothing any local elected or non elected official could have done to stop the quarry once the land was sold to them. Don't care what they did or who they called.
I believe you missed my point. Because the majority want something, doesn't make it right, or legal. The rock quarry, as a legal entity, enjoys the same property rights as private citizens. The main reason our nation is set up as a republic and not a democracy is to protect the minority (fl rock) from the majority (residents). If we were a democracy, then the whims of these concerned citizens would trump the rights of the rock quarry.
Since it seems you are contemplating a leap into government, what do you see as the role of government in a free society?
Perhaps I’m failing to communicate my view. I’m not in disagreement that a land owner has rights. Both Florida Rock and the residents have rights. My view deals with where one’s rights begin and the other ends as it is with this particular local issue.
The people of our little county elect their leadership to represent and protect them and their interest. We have four districts. Each commissioner is responsible to those people in that district that elected him/her. In simple terms, they must be willing to fight for those people. Every battle would basically be the equivalent of taking a knife to a gunfight. If the county as a whole is in agreement with that single district, that is enough precedence to stop any entity from taking over because they have money. Now, this may seem contradictory of what I said previously about that single district having total say but, that is looking at the picture as the elected representative of that district only.
If it is the consensus of the people to turn and run away from a battle because a company has the money to throw their weight around and get their way regardless of what the people want, then we are in serious trouble. We don’t need a local government that is not willing to stand up for their people.
And Jackie – That was a broad question. Narrow it a bit. I’ll be happy to give you my view on any national political issue if I have one. I’ll say what I think and stand behind it until I’m proven wrong. Then, I’ll be the first to admit it.
I agree that the local government should stand up for its people, but at what expense? Because the will of the people is calling for a certain action, in no way makes it legal or reasonable. This sole reason, protection of the minority, is why our nation was founded as a republic based on law, instead of a democracy based on the whim of the majority. Had it not been, then any attrosity could be carried out to the extent of the size of your gang. In this case, the rock quarry has not, and is not planning to violate any rights of the citizens of this county. Driving dump trucks, using dynamite, and the general operations of a rock quarry, in no way, violate any rights of the citizens.
The question about the role of government could be a very broad question, but it can be very simply answered. I will provide my answer to ensure you that I am not trying to lead you into a trap. I believe the role of government is simply to protect the rights; life, liberty, and property; of its citizens. None of these three rights are being violated by the operation of the quarry, therefore, government has no place in the issue. If the quarry, due to negligence, contaminates public drinking water, causes a citizen bodily harm through reckless practices, or causes damage to one's property, then the government has every right to step in and punish the responsible parties. But until then, the government has no role in the issue.
But the local government did put up a fight and look what the result was -- the rock quarry is still coming and the local people living around it lost valuable setback and stockpile heighth limits -- not to mention the amount of money it has cost taxpayers. Once Fla Rock owned the land there was no one to trump them -- no matter how or who put up the fight. The proof is in the pudding. If you had been in office, the final results would be the same -- the rock quarry is coming.
I guess the only thing we can do is to agree to disagree.
I would ask that you take a look at these links and still say it’s impossible to fight the big corporation. Contra Costa county Supervisor Jon Gioia stated, it's about local citizens having the right to make the laws in their own communities, “not Wal-Mart executives in Bentonville, Arkansas .” There is help out there if you look for it.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/
Restoring Citizen Authority Over Corporations
http://www.celdf.org/
The Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund
CELDF was formed to provide free and affordable legal services to community-based groups and local governments working to protect their quality of life and the natural environment through building sustainable communities. Increasingly, that means teaming up with people and their municipal representatives to mount campaigns that challenge the legal clout of corporations to overrule decisions made by citizens for their communities.
For some communities, safeguarding their future means creating local constitutions, or home rule charters, that enumerate rights of local citizens, and of ecosystems -- and backing up those rights with enforceable law.
The Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund
675 Mower Road
Chambersburg, Pennsylvania 17201
Pennsylvania Township Becomes First in the Nation to Ban Corporate Mining
Becomes Third Municipality in Pennsylvania to Recognize the Rights Of Nature, and Seventh in the Nation to Strip Corporations of “Rights”
CONTACT: Thomas Linzey, Esq.
tal@pa.net
(717) 709-0457
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Chambersburg, Pennsylvania (October 17) – On October 16th , the Blaine Township, Washington County, Pennsylvania Board of Supervisors unanimously voted to adopt an Ordinance banning corporations from mining within the Township. Passed to confront concerns about corporate longwall coal mining in the Township, the Ordinance prohibits corporations from engaging in mining activities. With its passage, the Township becomes the first municipality in the United States to ban corporate mining.
Jackie -
from our own declaration - to ensure Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness; just about says it all. Give me some time and I'll try and give you a better answer in my own words.
Yet everyone in that Pennsylvania county will wonder why energy costs have gone up next year.
How can we "reclaim" democracy if we were never a democracy to begin with?
How can someone devote an entire website to "reclaiming" a form of government that was explicitly denounced by our founding fathers?
Can we atleast agree that majority rule is not the chosen form of government in America?
How is the quarry hindering any of the citizens from life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness?
For a little help, or to alteast understand my point better, please read "The Law", by Frederick Bastiat. It is very short (should only take about 30 mins to an hour), but should be read by anyone in a governmental position.
If the county commissioners could have stopped the quarry or not is a moot point. Same with the landfill. Lamar will become the county that never gets any legitimate business, just the ones the other counties dont want. If Treehorn and whoever sold them the land in the 1st place thinks they are such a good idea I hope they get in front of one of those Florida drivers one rainy night and their car will only run 55. It would serve them right. What ever happened to citizens right!!!
What is illegitimate about a rock quarry or a landfill?
Nothing happened to citizen's rights.
What citizen's rights are being violated?
What was the original post on this site. Wasn't it Burnette says he'll runn again in '08? A bunch of you are posting all this crap about the rock quarry of which none of you can do anything about and the rock quarry question has been settle after the idiots that so called lead this county spend all the tax dollars in legal fees..Let dead dogs lie.
Anonymous 10:01, which is why it has been correctly referred to as a moot point. I started this conversation when people started bad mouthing BB over a presumption that he "sold out" the people of lamar county. I simply asked what he could have done to prevent the quarry from legally operating their business? Which, to answer, you have to ask yourself what role should the local government play in this situation?
FT, I disagree. A democratic government would exist for the purpose you have stated. The best interest would arise from whichever side could foster the most support. If the issue was desegregation of our school systems, and the whites outnumbered the blacks, then, under your presumed purpose of government, we would still have segregation in our schools. However, a proper government exists only to protect its citizen's rights from intrusion by force. We all have the inherent right to protect our life, liberty, and property through the use of force. Government is nothing more than that right being carried out collectively.
To answer you question, a government should serve the interest of who is right, not who has the most people on their side, and not who has lived here the longest, and not who has the most friends in government.
I will ask again, what specific rights of the effected citizens are being violated by the rock quarry?
I think it would be a safe bet to say that Treehorn doesnt live anywhere near the gravel pit site or the landfill. I dont either, but other people do and they will have to deal with this problem as long as they live here. And there will be problems. While no personal rights may not be violated the right to a quiet, peaceful life the people who live in this area thought they were getting will be gone. Treehorn, have you even been to a rock quarry? Dust, noise, speeding trucks are what you will see. Very few jobs, wear on highways, increased traffic, etc. There are no positive benefits to having this business in our county other than tax dollars and those I am sure will not equal the increase I have to pay once the lawyers fees to keep them out were tacked on our tax bill. There is an old saying: Dont go where you are not wanted! Florida Rock probably laughs at that. As long as they can bully their way in and they can find some person who doesnt care about their neighbors they will be happy. Maybe next time Treehorn it will be in your backyard and i hope you still have the same view you have now cause you are gonna need it.
Why am i going to need a view point? I dont understand.
I have never once said it was going to be pleasant for the citizens, and how they handle it is up to them. But don't scream about the rock quarry violating citizens rights, when none are being violated. And don't blame the county leaders for upholding their duties to protect the constitutional rights of ALL.
"There are no positive benefits to having this business in our county other than tax dollars.."
And? What is your point? Is it the purpose of a business to provide a benefit to the community? Is business a grace from the government, in which we have to seek their approval before opening one?
The reason you dont understand is because it is not happening to you. Go to the FR quarry in Spalding and watch what happens. Would you want this in your neighborhood? Other communities are succesful in keeping out Walmarts and other business they dont want but not Lamar. By letting these type business in we keep out jobs that might actually pay someone a decent salary because nobody wants to live in a county that gets dumped on. I thought that, just maybe, after Carters closed we might finally get some jobs in the county that people could work at and be paid a decent wage. I was wrong. Upson county rebounded very well from their mill closings. Why didnt we? I am not blaming BB or anyone else. It was just handled wrong from the start. I am not crying about peoples rights, or business right. It is just amazing to me that anyone will try to defend corporate bullies. Sounds like something Boortz would say, and by the way, Treehorn, I dont listen to him either. Like I said before if it was in your backyard you wouldnt like it either. As far as the purpose of a business it is for the most part to show a profit, so I guess you are right but I dont need your civics lessons. Maybe they could relocate the "Love Shack" next to you. How would you like that?
I dont understand what? I dont understand that these residents don't want the rock quarry because it is loud and their will be increased traffic from dump trucks. How hard is that to understand? I don't need one nextdoor to me to understand your point of view.
Hold on, Spalding county has one of these terrible rock quarries? But how is that possible with all the other industries and businesses in that town? I thought the quarry would keep those businesses out. Isn't that what you taught me?
I want the love shack next to me. I bet it is a great place to pick up chicks with "compromised" morals. Don't get me started on the John's Creek prudes. Let's stick to one set of citizens who feels it their right to trample those of another.
And, since you see it the role of our government to pander to the vocal majority, without concern for the law or the rights of the minority, you obviously do need my civic lessons. And for them, you are welcome.
PS. I almost peed myself when you said I sound like Boortz.
"By letting these type business in we keep out jobs that might actually pay someone a decent salary because nobody wants to live in a county that gets dumped on."
You better hurry up and tell the DOT that noone wants to live in Spalding County. They are about to spend lots of our money improving 16 due to increased traffic. Also, tell the families that they will never make a decent salary in that county, and remind the businesses that they have located in a county with a rock quarry.
There are over 85 quarries in Georgia alone, some in affluent counties such as Henry, Cobb & Gwinnett.
Other than living next to a quarry, which is not really any worse than living next to a factory, what is wrong with a quarry? When they have finished mining all the rock, old quarries make great fishing, boating and recreation areas by filling them up with water.
you all want business or industries that pay higher to come to lamar co,would you?proberly not if you were held to the truth,when a business is going to relocate to an area the first thing they do is vist that area,without anyone knowing,see what the general population is like,and that gives them an idea of the type of people they will have working for them.just visit Barnesville or ingles for that matter,it brings to mind a third world country,just listen to people talk,just what language are they speeking?no one in their right mind would locate here.if they do it will just be a business thats looking for cheap unskilled labor.
I dont need your civic lessons or anything you got. If you can say that you would not try to fight to stop the rock if it were going to be put next you you are either a wimp or a person who truly believes that corporations should be allowed to do anything they desire. Either way, you are a loser.
Ya'll been busy. The original question was -
"In the same position, what would you have done when faced with a legal and legitimate organization seeking to build a business location through legal and legitimate means? Same goes for a landfill."
Now we're building Love Shacks and trying to get to wild women on a 2 lane road in a rain storm in a car that will only go 55, and we have rock trucks on our bumper.
I thought the conversation was how it could, or if it could have been handled another way. It kinda elevated into how and/or why the district commissioner should stay involved, should it continue, or should it stop. How/if it violates the those citizens that will live close by. How our founding fathers built our government. My opinion on government in a free society. Who knows? What next?
Jackie - similar to the answer you gave me about government, basically taken from the Constitution, I responded with an answer taken from the Declaration. I wasn't refering to the blog comments. It's hard to put it any better than the way it was defined long ago.
Our founding fathers defined our form of government as a democratic republic, or perhaps it was a republic demoncracy. I can't remember which way it is refered to.
On a different note -
It is not the right of an elected official of the people to give up a battle. The people that elected him/her will make that determination. Until that time comes, that official continues to push ahead, regardless of how the other districts see it. That official is representing those people that elected him/her and that's where his/her responsibility lies.
I very briefly scanned over "The Law", by Frederick Bastia. When I get more time I will read to comprehend it. Please understand that I said briefly scanned, and I may be way-way off base, and if I am I apologize now, but to me it had overtones of
The Communist Manifesto: Globalisation,
The Nation-State and Class Struggle
http://www.cpim.org/marxist/199804_marxist_cmanifesto_pk.htm
More reading -
http://socialistregister.com/socialistregister.com/files/SR_1998_Beamish.pdf
Anyway, that's all I have to say for now. We can all get upset over some blog comments or opinions of others. I know I'm guilty of it as FT could maybe say. But at times you can learn something you didn't know. Getting the opinions from others will sometimes allow you to get a better reflection of yourself. That valuable information will allow you to be a better person. Just remember one thing: If the think that you may get offended by the answer, don't ask the question.
It's not necessarily right to put the rock quarry in the same category as any other business because God obviously planted a rock the size of stone mountain in the ground out there on 36. Even though from our perspective on the ground it all appears the same as any other piece of property in the county it's not.
It is a democratic republic. I am sure.
I asked the question to simply cause people to think before throwing BB under the bus because of his actions regarding the quarry. Just as it isn't the governments job to start businesses, it isn't its job to stop businesses.
"The Law" is the complete opposite, and actually a warning against the socialist ideals and the inevitable lead into communism they would bring.
Democratic republic defined [Web Answer]:
> A democratic republic is an entity in which the head of state is elected, directly or indirectly, for a fixed tenure.
The United States, for example, is a federal republic with states that have their own legal standing and authority independent of the federal government. American states cannot be abolished or changed by the federal government. States possess significant responsibilities in such fields as education, health, transportation, and law enforcement. Individual states in the United States have generally followed the federalist model by delegating many functions such as the operation of schools and police departments, to local communities. Federal, state, and local agencies can all have overlapping and conflicting agendas but federalism does maximize opportunities for the citizen involvement so vital to the functioning of democratic society.
All democracies are systems in which citizens freely make political decisions by majority rule. But rule by the majority is not necessarily democratic: No one, for example, would call a system fair or just that permitted 51 percent of the population to oppress the remaining 49 percent in the name of the majority. In a democratic society, majority rule must be coupled with guarantees of individual human rights that, in turn, serve to protect the rights of minorities--whether ethnic, religious, or political, or simply the losers in the debate over a piece of controversial legislation. The rights of minorities do not depend upon the goodwill of the majority and cannot be eliminated by majority vote. The rights of minorities are protected because democratic laws and institutions protect the rights of all citizens.
What is a minority [Web Answer]
> Minority is defined as a racial, religious, political, national, or other group regarded as different from the larger group of which it is part.
What is a Minority Group:
> A subordinate group whose members have significantly less control or power over their lives than members of a dominant or majority group.
Characteristics of a Minority Group:
> Distinguishing physical or cultural traits, e.g. skin color or language for example.
What is a corporation:
> A corporation is a legal entity which, while being composed of natural persons, exists completely separately from them. This separation gives the corporation unique powers which other legal entities lack. The extent and scope of its status and capacity is determined by the law of the place of incorporation.
A corporation is not a minority: It may be minority owned but cannot obtain minority status.
Do the owners not have rights to engange in a legal business process? Is it not a minority vs a majority issue? The people who don't want the rock quarry (majority) vs the owners and the proponents of the quarry (minority).
In this case you have a greater number of people trying to use the law and the police force of the government to hinder the God given rights of a smaller number of people.
I think we have agreed that Bobby Burnette is not to blame for the rock quarry, as he was merely upholding his sworn duty as a public servant.
Jackie Treehorn
– Wanted to let you know that I enjoyed our dialogue on this subject.
Treehorn, I am glad I dont have to depend on you to go for the ammunition. You must have stock in FR. Citizens have a right to fight against what they do not want in their neighborhood. This county would be in even worse shape than they are already in if everyone gave up like you.
As did I Gary. I look forward to more.
Anonymous, you made two assumptions as the logic of your previous post, and both are wrong.
Did I say that citizens didn't have a right to stand up to FR? I believe I said, "They do have every right to complain and try to stop it. But they do not have a right to defame a man who was simply acting within the laws that govern our society. These people can complain all they want, so long as they don't violate the rights of others". Are you sure you have the slightest understanding of our disagreeance?
I only said that FR has not violated any of their rights, and to throw our government officials under the proverbial bus as the sacrificial lamb for everything that goes wrong in their lives is, not only wrong, but completely un-American.
Did I give up?
I never wanted to keep them out of Lamar County. I never really took a stance on whether or not I want them here at all. However, I have taken a stance that they have violated noone's rights, and our government handled this situation correctly. So, based on my original stance, have I given up or conceded any ground to your side's backward reasoning.
How can you say I own stock in FR, implying that I want the rock quarry in Lamar County, or that I will benefit from it, then say that I gave up? If your falsely presumed notion of my stance was correct, it would seem as if I have not given up.....but I have won.
I don't own stock in FR, nor know anyone that does. I do, however, have a solid understanding of the role of government in a capitalist economy, and the inherent rights of every man, be it a Lamar county resident of 50 years, or an owner of FR looking to do business.
Treehorn. Do the people who have worked hard all their life and thought they would be be living in a nice quiet place not have any rights? We just lost out to big business, unlike other places. If you would do a little research you just might find other communities keep out "undesirable" companies, and i dont need you to quote me something out of a book as to what is or is not desirable or what the "government" should be allowed to do, even if the law allows it. Right is right and the majority never got the right to even vote! I would just like you to answer the question, if it was in your backyard, would you not try to fight it, or would you just give in? In all your ramblings you never adress the issue? Dumb question. You would give in. Whatever the "government" or law says is right. End of question. This gravel dump will not affect me personally as i live on the other side of the county and other than speeding trucks, accidents, dust, and broken windshields i have no problem with FR as i am quite sure that some company that has to go where they are not wanted, and i am sure you will defend that right, doesnt give a damn what the people think that have to put up with all the problems they will cause. I just dont like to see people getting screwed and the direction our government is going in, where the people who live here dont have the right to even vote on issues that will impact their lives but immigrants are given Dairy Queens, package stores, and little or no taxes but the people who were born here would only be laughed at if we tried to apply for a government loan to buy a business, and please Treehorn, spare me your redneck, bigot, good ole boy comments because i dont have anything anything against immigrants except they should not be given benefits that natural born citizens dont have.. Mccall posted websites of organizations designed to keep out unwanted businesses. Why didnt our county leaders have the brains to do a little research to see what other places have done to keep out companies they didnt want. Guess that never crossed their little minds. We should have been allowed to vote, if not countywide at the very least in that district. Do you even have a clue, that given a vote, how this thing would have been decided? Probably not, because according to you, what the government wants is what they get.
Since you either refuse to read, or cannot comprehend what you have read, I am going to try, one more time, to explain my stance on the issue.
"Do the people who have worked hard all their life and thought they would be be living in a nice quiet place not have any rights?"
Yes. They do. As I said numerous times. I thought it would suffice to say it in my previous post, to which you responded directly. ("Did I say that citizens didn't have a right to stand up to FR? I believe I said, "They do have every right to complain and try to stop it. But they do not have a right to defame a man who was simply acting within the laws that govern our society. These people can complain all they want, so long as they don't violate the rights of others". Are you sure you have the slightest understanding of our disagreeance?"). I guess not, so, to answer your question, yes they do have rights. Now to ask you a question, what rights of theirs have been violated?
"and i dont need you to quote me something out of a book as to what is or is not desirable or what the "government" should be allowed to do, even if the law allows it."
What do you have against books? You don't need a quote from a book because you are afraid to challenge your beliefs.
I never said a word about what the government should be allowed to do. I only said what it shouldn't be allowed to do, and that is to prevent legitimate businesses from locating withint their municipalities. Once again, a simple disagreeance due to your lack of effort or ability to comprehend what you have read.
"Right is right and the majority never got the right to even vote!"
Therein lies the problem. You have no basic understanding of the structure of our government. We live in a democratic republic. Look it up. We do not vote on individual issues. You have expained a democracy, or a system of mob rule. This was explicitly warned against by our founding fathers. I would provide a quote supporting this, but I read it in a book; and I know how you feel about books.
"I would just like you to answer the question, if it was in your backyard, would you not try to fight it, or would you just give in? "
You didn't give me alternative choices. Are "not try to fight it" and "just give in" differing options? I am under the impression that "just giving in" is the same as "not trying to fight it".
Just kidding. I know what you meant. Yes, I would try to fight it. However, I wouldn't blame the government for everything that goes wrong in my life and look for them to help. Living free means you are free to take responsibility for the good and the bad that happens in your life.
"I just dont like to see people getting screwed and the direction our government is going in, where the people who live here dont have the right to even vote on issues that will impact their lives but immigrants are given Dairy Queens, package stores, and little or no taxes but the people who were born here would only be laughed at if we tried to apply for a government loan to buy a business, and please Treehorn, spare me your redneck, bigot, good ole boy comments because i dont have anything anything against immigrants except they should not be given benefits that natural born citizens dont have.. "
Aside from the overwhelming grammatical errors, this run-on sentence is so full of contradictions that I don't know where to begin. I guess my main question is how you were able to draw a parrallel between citizens voting on a rock quarry and immigrants owning businesses? I don't approve of government loans for business either. It is just inherently wrong to use tax payer's money that was stolen at the point of a gun to fund someone else's business ventures. Of course, you only have a problem with them because they are given to immigrants, and not you, since your rights obviously grow stronger with the amount of time you live here.
"We should have been allowed to vote, if not countywide at the very least in that district." Did you read this before you clicked publish? Do you still have a vinyl sign in your yard with the old GA flag on it? I don't know how else to explain it. We enjoy a democratic republic. We elect leaders, the leaders make the decisions. We do not vote on issues. If you don't like the way our government is set up, move to a completely democratic country. You can have a vote daily on every issue that arises.
"Do you even have a clue, that given a vote, how this thing would have been decided? " Yes. However, it is too bad for those people the will of the majority doesn't write laws in this nation.
OMG...you sound like Cameron Frye
who is omg
oh my god
I moved away from Barnesville 36 years ago, but still enjoy reading the Gazette. But just who is G McCall and Jackie Treehorn? why don't you just call each other or better still, go to work.
Because I don't know his number - and besides what are you complaining about. If you don't like what's written - don't read it. If no one wrote - there would be no blog. And, I go to work everyday thank you.
I am sure Mr. Mccall is probably a hard working person who is trying to be a concerned citizen. Treehorn sounds like some kid, maybe even Cameron Frye, that has never had a job and believes whatever the the teacher says. When you get out and work for a living you start caring how your government works, and if they are not doing their job you let em know. Scuse me, professor Treehorn, I might have thrown a run on grammatical error or a run-on sentence in here. What kind of flag I have in my yard aint none of your business, kid, so go wipe the milk off your mouth. Now here is something that is not a run-on sentence. Children should be seen and not heard.
Treehorn, you got something againt people with old Ga. flags in their yards? After all your crap about freedom and democracy and you dont believe people should have the right to display whatever they want. If you are gonna be weak and stupid at least be consistant about it.
I think Treehorn and Frye are one in the same....
I think so too. Since we havent heard from young Cameron in a while maybe he decided to come back as Jackie Treehouse. Either way they both think they have all the answers and anyone who disagrees with them is a fool. Children these days have no manners. Just ignore him, but most people do that anyway.
Wow. I am going to keep this short, but I would like answers to the questions I am going to ask.
Anonymous 4:55, Since you are so concerned with our government doing their job, you should be able to answer one simple question. What is our government's job? Or, since we are talking business here, what is the job of a government in a free market society?
Also, I can't help but believe that your assumption of GMcCall's status as a hard working citizen, arises only from the fact that his point of view agrees with you. So to sum up your argument, anyone that agrees and gives in to your reasoning is a hard working responsible citizen; anyone that doesn't is an irresponsible kid with no clue as to the goings on of our government. Now please answer my question.
And now I know you hate books and propper grammar. You aren't making a strong case to support your arguments.
Anonymous 6:42, I wasn't referring to the freedom to fly the flag of your choice. I was referring to the little vinyl signs that have the old GA flag on them and the words "Let Us Vote". These signs embody the false assumption that we live in a democracy, where every issue is voted on and decided by popular vote. Please name one issue which has become law as a result of popular vote alone. Which brings me, again, to the fact that due to our differing opinions, you will refuse to read anything I have written. In almost every post on this topic, along with many others, I have addressed the issue that we are not a democracy, but a republic.
JNC, I don't think anyone that disagrees with me is a fool, I just think they are wrong. I disagree with GMcCall on this issue. I don't think he is a fool. I think we just have differing opinions on the role of our government. He has backed up his argument with reason and logic instead of discrediting mine with my age. However, I do think that anyone that will use my age against my argument instead of forming a logical rebutle of their own is a fool. Since I am 24 yrs young, does that mean that I have a lesser understanding of government than you? I would be willing to bet that I can go toe to toe with you on any issue of the day, as well as any issue you care to tackle regarding governmental philosophy.
I am open for intelligent discussion of any stance I have taken. I am also open to changing my view point when a convincingly strong argument is formed by one of you. But none of you have yet to answer one simple question. In spite of all the crying about citizen's rights, you cannot name one single right that has been violated by Florida Rock.
I think anonymous and anonymous are one in the same....
I have one question. I think it's a reasonable question.
I have nothing against a person formulating their own opinion over any subject and, like I said, I enjoyed discussing this subject with Treehorn. However, I thought I was discussing it with a person using a real name. The name I use is the name given to me at birth.
Regardless, this is my question.
When Jackie Treehorn, or anyone else, feels so strongly over an issue, WHY are they afraid to attach their real name to it?
If a person is not willing to defend their opinion over something, then that person must have doubt about their opinion, or they are afraid of being proven wrong. Even the most intelligent person in the world can't be right about everything.
I know I'm not correct about all the issues. But, if I"m going to debate an opinion that I feel strong about, people have a right to know where the opinion came from. Then, if I'm proven wrong, I'll also have the opportunity to be the first to admit it.
While it's true that you may get knocked around some defending your opinion (even may have to pull your foot out of your mouth), It's my opinion you'll have more respect defending it as a real person and being wrong, than being right and afraid to stand up for your own beliefs as a real person.
WELL LAST NIGHT WHEN I ASKED WHO MCCALL AND TREEHORN WERE, I GUESS I OPENED A CAN OF WORMS. I'LL STAY ANONYMOUS BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T KNOW ME ANYWAY. I RETIRED AT 57 SO I CAN STAY ON THE COMPUTER IF I LIKE. I'LL BE "WATCHING"
You asked:
- Please name one issue which has become law as a result of popular vote alone.
Well I don’t know if I can answer this question and be able to explain it with any degree of understanding but, I’m giving it a shot.
Excluding elections using the vote by the people where the Electoral College will come into play, all voting is decided by the majority.
- The Lottery
- Beer sales in our own county and city
- Everything put on a ballot; (SPLOST) for example
Anonymous Retired @ 57
Please - you don't have to just watch. Please feel free to get involved and voice your opinions. They are just as important as any of the others and they are most welcome.
If my comment appeared rude - please accept my apology.
You make a good point with the SPLOST funds. The purpose of SPLOST voting, as I see it, is to get input from the community that foots the bill, as to how the money should be spent. This did answer my question. However, this is voting on an issue that deals mostly with what the government should be allowed to do. The rock quarry issue, on the other hand, would be deciding on what citizens should be allowed to do. I dont know if I am making sense, but the government gets its authority and rights to function from the people. Therefore a vote limiting the government's power is not the same as a vote limiting the powers of legal citizens.
Voting on the issue and use of SPLOST is not the same as voting to prevent a completely legal entity from performing a completely legal activity.
Did the lottery not have to pass the same legislative procedures as anyother bill?
As far as the beer sell issue goes, I believe our county was wrong to be dry in the first place, and secondly was wrong to put the decision on the shoulders of the people. Personally, I don't think it is up to the majority whether or not a business can sell beer or liquor. If you don't like beer or liquor, don't buy it. But that goes back to our differing opinions on the role of government. I believe a business selling me beer, and me buying beer, in no way imposes on the rights of my neighbors, therefore the government has no role.
treehouse or frye, whatever you want to be, if you were so sure of your convictions you would use your real name. one of the reasons no one nobody pays any attention to you is you think you are so smart and all you do is run off at the mouth. if you are so sure of yourself print your real name so maybe when we meet you on the street we can discuss the issues. you aint scared, are you?
jackme treehouse, nobody cares what you think. use your own name and people might listen to what you say.
The great thing about this is that you dont have to use your real name.
Thank God above that people are finally seeing that the Burnette family does NOT walk on water in this town and are seeing them for what they really are. I don't mean to sound so bad about all of them but lets get real....they have skated on their name for way too long. In fact Bobby Burnette has on several occasions treated people who are "BENEATH HIM and HIS" so cruel and its about time he get a job where it actually requires you know SOMETHING and not SOMEONE!!!!! Jimmy Burnette was working illegal aliens and paying them nothing forever AND getting prisoners out of the county jail to work for him until that long waited law suit from one!! I love America and the fact that just MY tiny little vote makes a difference!! GOD BLESS AMERICA
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